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two old double shotguns

boarman23
Thanks for your expert help in the past! First shot gun is a hammerless damascus 12 ga E L Baker. All of the original old model Bakers I have seen were marked W H Baker, but none for E(Ellis) L Baker. Are these really rare? The second shotgun is a back action hammered damascus 16 GA
shotgun with a Jones underlever. This shotgun (Robinson and Sons) has British proof marks very very heavy barrels with quite high raised rib with a three leaf express sights and front blade sight as in a double rifle. I see no visible rifling or fosberry rifling at the muzzle. On the underside of the barrel flats is the number 56, and the usual not for ball statement is absent. One barrel is choked full for 16 GA, and the other barrel is choked full for 20 GA. I'm stumped!! Help!!
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  • nord
    Your "Baker" is NOT the Baker you're thinking of. And I probably wouldn't use the term "rare". I would expect that you'll find ELG proofs on the piece. Almost certainly a Belgian knockoff.

    The English gun? Photos would be a big help. Shotguns don't have heavy tubes, nor do they carry express sights. My first thought is a Cape Gun. Then again, you give no hint as to whether a muzzle loader or a breech gun.
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  • boarman23
    No, I collect American Bakers, and this is definately not a Belgian gun, with Belgian proof marks, it is an American Baker with all the engraving and locking mechanism pretty much identical to the W H Baker gun. It has the same patented August 12 1884 scrolled under the bottom of the receiver with the elk engraved in a circle above it. The second shotgun is a breech loader as muzzle loaders do not have a Jones Underlever, and again no rifling is visible unless it is possibly has Lancaster oval bore rifling.
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