Iver Johnson Top Break Model and DOM
Hi,
Could use some help to answer a friend's questions about a pistol he picked up. My books have some information but not enough.
It's an Iver Johnson, 32, 5 shot, top break, owl's head top on grips (grips are perfect and worn some), nickel finish, tight all the way, great condition functions perfectly, has (4) cross pins in frame, floating firing pin (face of hammer is flat with an offset like my Ruger. Sorry, I didn't look for striker bar, but it probably has it), around a 3+" barrel, made in Fitchburg (sorry, I don't have all the writing on top of barrel other than Iver Johnson). No writing on sides of barrel or frame or caliber marked. Serial number on bottom of blued trigger gard 464xx. Some patent dates on bottom of frame at base of grips 1895 or so I believe. There is a small pin behind the trigger that would be depressed at the last of the trigger pull. I had to measure the caliber with a ruler. It is a shade over 5/16" at tip of barrel and in case opening of cylinder. Definitely 5 rounds. Cylinder walls sure are thin by design.
I saw a lot of choices in Blue book and then model 1, 2 3.
Top latch is (well the whole pistol) similar to a S&W.
Can anyone help me narrow this down a little?
Thanks,
Bob
Edit: Believe to be Third Model Safety Automatic Hammer (Smokeless Powder Cartridge). Didn't remove the grips so I don't know about a coil or leaf spring or if another serial number is under the grips on the left side. The serial number position on the bottom of the trigger gard is not listed anywhere I can find.
Assuming this is the model does anyone know an approx date by the S/N? There is no letter in front of the serial no. on the trigger gard. Can't get in touch with him until tomorrow. I'll try to get him to remove the left grip and get the full S/N and letter and check for a coil spring. I'll also get the text on the top of the barrel and the patent dates on the bottom of the grips.
Could use some help to answer a friend's questions about a pistol he picked up. My books have some information but not enough.
It's an Iver Johnson, 32, 5 shot, top break, owl's head top on grips (grips are perfect and worn some), nickel finish, tight all the way, great condition functions perfectly, has (4) cross pins in frame, floating firing pin (face of hammer is flat with an offset like my Ruger. Sorry, I didn't look for striker bar, but it probably has it), around a 3+" barrel, made in Fitchburg (sorry, I don't have all the writing on top of barrel other than Iver Johnson). No writing on sides of barrel or frame or caliber marked. Serial number on bottom of blued trigger gard 464xx. Some patent dates on bottom of frame at base of grips 1895 or so I believe. There is a small pin behind the trigger that would be depressed at the last of the trigger pull. I had to measure the caliber with a ruler. It is a shade over 5/16" at tip of barrel and in case opening of cylinder. Definitely 5 rounds. Cylinder walls sure are thin by design.
I saw a lot of choices in Blue book and then model 1, 2 3.
Top latch is (well the whole pistol) similar to a S&W.
Can anyone help me narrow this down a little?
Thanks,
Bob
Edit: Believe to be Third Model Safety Automatic Hammer (Smokeless Powder Cartridge). Didn't remove the grips so I don't know about a coil or leaf spring or if another serial number is under the grips on the left side. The serial number position on the bottom of the trigger gard is not listed anywhere I can find.
Assuming this is the model does anyone know an approx date by the S/N? There is no letter in front of the serial no. on the trigger gard. Can't get in touch with him until tomorrow. I'll try to get him to remove the left grip and get the full S/N and letter and check for a coil spring. I'll also get the text on the top of the barrel and the patent dates on the bottom of the grips.
0
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this very well could be a early third model (four cross pins in frame) but with out the letter code on the left side of the grips and the exact patent date marking i am not sure.
atarting in 1909 (thid model) iver johnson started the letter codes over again with the follow:
small frame 32 hammer=A
small frame 32 hammerless=B
large frame 32 & 38 hammer=C
large frame 32 & 38 hammerless=D
small frame 22 hammer = E
small frame 22 hammerless = F
of course if it is not a third model all this means nothing.
the reason the serial number on the trigger guard is not mentioned in any of the pricing guides is it is only a secondary location the same as the one on the bottom of the top strap. and triggers guards are interchangable within the different models. FYI the trigger guard number did not appear on the bottlon until 1904 (second model) it was on the upper right side (hidden) until then.
bill0 -
This is the information I took off the pistol today:
1. Took the grips off the side and it has a coil hammer spring.
2. The letter before the serial number is A464xx.
3. The patent dates are June 16 '96 and Aug 25 '95 (top of 5 is worn on the '95 could be "6" or something.
4. Top of barrel marked Iver Johnson Arms and Cycle Works, Fitchburg Mass USA
5. It does have the striker bar under the hammer.
Given the serial number can we nail down a DOM and make?
Thanks for all the help.0 -
these two patent dates were used between 1911 and 1913 so it is a third model small frame 32 S&W caliber. serial number A 464XX was manufactured in 1911. there were 36,500 of this model made that year.
THIRD MODEL SAFETY AUTOMATIC HAMMER REVOLVER
(Smokeless Powder Cartridges)
1909-1941
LARGE FRAME AND SMALL FRAME VERSIONS USES HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION: Double top post barrel latch with Hammer the Hammer action. This model redesigned to be strong enough for smokeless powder. All coil springs, hard rubber grip panels with Owls head at top, optional oversize grips of hard rubber or wood were offered. Two frame sizes, four calibers, Standard barrel length: small frame 3 inches, large frame 3 ? inches. Calibers: small frame .22 rimfire 7 rounds cylinder capacity, .32 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity, large frame .32 Special centerfire with 6 rounds cylinder capacity, .38 centerfire with 5 rounds cylinder capacity; Weight: small frame .22 rimfire with 3 inch barrel 13 ounces, .32 centerfire with 3 inch barrel 13 ? ounces, large frame with 3 ? inch barrel .32 Special 19 ounces, .38 centerfire with 3 ? inch barrel 18 ? inches; Height: small frame 3 _ inches, large frame 3 7/8 inches; Frame length: small frame 4 3/16 inches, large frame 5 inches; Overall length: small frame with 3 inch barrel 6 3/8 inches, large frame with 3 ? inch barrel 7 3/8 inches. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see. The Third Model features a double top post barrel latch, coil hammer spring and four cross pins in the lower frame.
VALUE: 100%=$250 60%=$115
bill0 -
Hello,
I have a IJ .38, 5 shot top break w/owl heads on grips, nickel finish. great mechanically; finish shows wear.
It has (if I'd made it out correctly) June 16, 1996; Aug. 26, 1998 and Sept. 6, 1904 on the butt.
On the trigger guard is 2499.
Beneath the grip is C 2499.
Bill, could you tell me when this gun was manufactured and what it might be worth?
Thanks in advance.0 -
treysix,
these three patent dates were used between 1907 and 1911. serial number C 2499 was manufactured in 1909. it is a large frame 38S&W caliber and there were 8,900 of this model made that year. as with any early third model besure to check it out before firing it.
THIRD MODEL SAFETY AUTOMATIC HAMMER REVOLVER
(Smokeless Powder Cartridges)
1909-1941
LARGE FRAME AND SMALL FRAME VERSIONS USES HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION: Double top post barrel latch with Hammer the Hammer action. This model redesigned to be strong enough for smokeless powder. All coil springs, hard rubber grip panels with Owls head at top, optional oversize grips of hard rubber or wood were offered. Two frame sizes, four calibers, Standard barrel length: small frame 3 inches, large frame 3 ? inches. Calibers: small frame .22 rimfire 7 rounds cylinder capacity, .32 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity, large frame .32 Special centerfire with 6 rounds cylinder capacity, .38 centerfire with 5 rounds cylinder capacity; Weight: small frame .22 rimfire with 3 inch barrel 13 ounces, .32 centerfire with 3 inch barrel 13 ? ounces, large frame with 3 ? inch barrel .32 Special 19 ounces, .38 centerfire with 3 ? inch barrel 18 ? inches; Height: small frame 3 _ inches, large frame 3 7/8 inches; Frame length: small frame 4 3/16 inches, large frame 5 inches; Overall length: small frame with 3 inch barrel 6 3/8 inches, large frame with 3 ? inch barrel 7 3/8 inches. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see. The Third Model features a double top post barrel latch, coil hammer spring and four cross pins in the lower frame.
VALUE: 100%=$250 60%=$115
bill0
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