so many 380's, but not sure which one.
I was at the range today with my kel tec p11 9 mm. The gun has too much kick to comfortably or accurately shoot. Therefore I am thinking of trading it in for possibly a 380. I'm thinking that the smaller round size will equal less recoil. On the flip side, the 380's are smaller so I am unsure if the smaller size firearm with the smaller size round would equal the same recoil.
I was looking at the sig p238, which looks like a quality firearm. However it is substantially more $$$ than the ruger LCP or the kel tec P-3AT.
I wish I could test one out before my purchse because I'd hate to be in the same boat I'm in now, and since none of the ranges in my area have any for rent or trial, I am left to rely on the advice of those with experience in 380's.
I was looking at the sig p238, which looks like a quality firearm. However it is substantially more $$$ than the ruger LCP or the kel tec P-3AT.
I wish I could test one out before my purchse because I'd hate to be in the same boat I'm in now, and since none of the ranges in my area have any for rent or trial, I am left to rely on the advice of those with experience in 380's.
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You are right about the small 380's felt recoil being felt harder. My P3AT feels harder than my Kahr P-9. 0 -
I've had a German-made (not the current S&W version) Walther PPK/S since 1979 and it has performed flawlessly for all of those years.
If it's good enough for James Bond, it's good enough for me!0 -
Of COURSE the PF9 has a lot of recoil; its a 9mm luger from a very light gun. Its not supposed to be comfortable to shoot, its supposed to be comfortable to CARRY.
If you want something comfortable to shoot, get yourself a CZ-75.
If this were me, I'd just shoot the PF-9 a lot to get accustomed to the recoil. I'd suggest a good firm two-handed grip. Also, one of those Hogue grip sleeves can be put over the grip and that will make the gun a bit easier to control. If your little finger hangs off the bottom, you'd want a magazine pinky extension too.
You also don't need pinpoint accuracy for self defense at 20 feet or less, and I really don't think you ought to expect it from a gun of this type. If you can keep your shots in a 6-7" group at 7 yards, you're probably "good enough" and with practice you can probably get the groups down to half that.
I've shot most of these at one point or another (kel-tec p32, 3at, p11, p40, Ruger LCR, Kahr 9mm) and NONE of them are particularly easy to group well. That's what happens when you couple a small powerful gun with teensy sights, a short sight radius and a double-action trigger. Kel-Tec P40, by the way, is one of the singularly most unpleasant handguns I've ever shot in my life.
For what its worth, the sights on the p11 are better than those on the 3AT.
3AT and its clone the Ruger LCP also have other disadvantages, including a lot of muzzle flip; hard to hold onto (grip is small); questionable reliability (they make take extensive break-in); scarce and expensive .380 (at least for now); and marginal in power, especially compared to 9mm luger.0 -
Hi all, thanks for the replys.
Well, at 10 feet I can hold a pretty good group if I take my time and aim. However that's not realistic for a self defense situation. So today I put the target back to about 25-30' which is the distance from my bedroom door to the front door of my home. In addition I wasn't aiming so much as I was point shooting, which again is more realistic of a self defense situation.
At 25' my group was about 12" which I can deal with. I can probably tighten that up with more practice. The problem was after 30 rounds the thumb on my shooting hand was soar enough that I stopped shooting the p11 and switched to my BHP which is a true pelasure for me to shoot all day long.
Another thing that irks me about the p11 is the lack of a safety which honestly makes me nervous to carry w/o a safety so if I trade in, I think an external safety is going to be a must. That's part of the reason I was looking at the sig p238. Then again I am not even sure if it has a safety since the website doesn't say and I speculate it might just be a decocker.
As for mag extenders, so my pinky doesn't hang off, that's a logical idea. But I do not want to add to the size of the p11. If I am going to add to the size I may as well just carry my BHP. I'd much prefer a smaller pistol with a mag extender than the p11 w/ extender...
I'm not overly concerned with the "knock down power" of the 9mm luger vs the .380 since, unless someone is wearing body armor, either round will hurt alot.
Thanks for the advice.0 -
The .380 is not an effective enough round to make me feel good about having to defend myself with it. Resolve your recoil problems by getting a larger steel frame hand gun such as the 1911 in 9mm and reduce the recoil. One of the problems I think with most people is that they don't shoot the weapon enough to get use to it and end up giving up on the gun.
Emmett0 -
The SIG P238 is single-action only with an external safety. Think of it as a bitty 1911. If the notion of carrying a SAO "cocked and locked" doesn't appeal to you, it might not be a good choice.
I'd keep practicing with the P11. If/when you need it (hopefully never), you are not going to be firing 30 rounds at a time. You could also try practicing with some lower-powered 9mm in addition to the full-power defensive ammo to see if that helps any.0 -
hammaslamma, if you have a High Power, WHY the heck are you looking for something else [?][?]
If you are comfortable with the single action, go for the Sig P-2380 -
If you're set on a good compact pistol and are concerned about price, consider the Bersa 380cc. I've tried a few pocket pistols, but the bersa was so much better. I had a few problems with the smaller pistols like the Ruger LCP, but the bersa was still big enough to handle, but small enough to conceal. That's how I felt about it anyway...
ps-Spider, is your PPK/S a .32 or a .380? Mr. Bond carried the .32 right?[8D]0 -
This Beretta Cheetah model 86 with a tip up barrel is phenomenally accurate and fits a hand beautifully. I can shoot a really nice 9 shot group at 50 yards with it. Using a shooting glove I can shoot two boxes of shells with it comfortably. Winchester bulk pack ball ammo shoots quite a bit lighter that Corbon or Talon +P loads do. I'm pretty well convinced that shooting serious rounds meant to cause maximum damage will make quite a big difference in effectiveness for self defense. I put it next to a Python sized Diamondback for size reference.
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We have a pair of .380's, my wife carries a Kel- Tec and I carry a Bersa.
I prefer the Bersa because it fits my hand a little bit better, but Julie prefers the Kel-Tec for the same reason. The Bersa is much easier to break down for cleaning and is less finicky regarding ammo.
When the K-T was new it jammed a few times using FMJ range ammo. I took it apart to clean it after the first 200 rounds I polished the feed ramp and that seemed to take care of it. I've had one jam since then using a 100 gr cast reload. The Bersa eats anything.
Both guns have handled Golden Sabers, Hydra-Shoks,FMJ roundnose, 90 grain cast roundnose reloads, and 100 grain cast cone reloads. While I wouldn't say the Kel-Tec is unreliable, I will say the Bersa is more reliable.
As you know the K-T is double action only with no safety, kind of like a revolver.
The Bersa is single or double action with a safety and decocker.
All things being equal, I think the Bersa will have less recoil, given it's larger, heavier frame and may be a better choice for you. You certainly won't find a better value.
GH1[:)]0
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