CAN I TRANSPORT ANTIQUE/REPLICA.... Part 2
From, http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=439084
quote:Originally posted by Ralph III
You are quoting the Federal statute correct? Please note in this Federal statute "Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof..."
Yes exactly. Do you know the definition of "Notwithstanding"? Well here is it,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/notwithstanding
not?with?stand?ing (ntwth-stndng, -w-)
prep.
In spite of: The teams played on, notwithstanding the rain.
adv.
All the same; nevertheless: We proceeded, notwithstanding.
conj.
In spite of the fact that; although.
So what that statement reads;
In spite of (or; no matter what ) any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any
person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from
transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to
transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he
may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place
where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during
such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the
firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible
or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such
transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle
without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the
firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container
other than the glove compartment or console.
quote:
The Federal statute states you can carry and transport as I stated and have researched. It however, as I noted, is a problem with the states! Each state has its own regulation in regards to transporting and or carrying pistols on your person, off your property. In fact some states or cities, as New York, do not even allow such. That is not Constitutionally legal in my opinion but nonetheless could land you in court if you wish to test it.
That is the whole point of this law. It allows LAWFUL transport of firearms from legal point to legal point even if passing though states it would not normally be legal as long as you follow the provisions of the statute. If this was not the case there would be no reason for this law. Before 1986 you HAD to know the law for each state, county, city that you might be traveling though. This is almost impossible to do so this is one of the laws that the NRA loves to cheer on since they got it passed.
quote:
I may not have time tonight but yes can quote a gun lawyer who states you cannot depend on the Federal statute to bail you out if conflicting with state laws.
I know I can research gun carry permits and quote state laws which say you must have a permit to transport/carry a "pistol". For the life of me I cannot see anyone arguing this and as my Police Chief neighbor/friend has also confirmed (Alabama).
To carry a concealed firearm you would need a concealed permit that was valid for each state you were going to carry in. I am not sure what you are talking about arguing what or what the Police Chief has to do with any of this.
quote:
This is why I will be getting a carry permit soon which is recognized in various states with "similar" laws. States with differing laws will not recognize my carry/concealed permit. I forget the technical name for this but will begin researching for you as I do not post things which I am not confident in.
My question was whether a black powder gun was exempt. I read as Louisiana does not address antique guns then they are treated as any modern pistol. I will also post that as soon as possible.
Thanks, Ralph
Getting a concealed permit is a great way to go. Again unlike the Federal statue it does not cover you in places that your permit is not valid.
The whole point of the 1986 FOPA was to make it legal for people to travel and have to worry about not only state but local, since some states have laws that change every time you cross a county or city line, laws. I am not sure how much clearer or how else to make it more clear but it IS 100% legal to transport any firearm though any part of the US as long as you follow the statute which basically says it is unloaded and in a secure place.
It is your choice to choose not to use this law, but that does not change the fact that it is a valid law.
quote:Originally posted by Ralph III
You are quoting the Federal statute correct? Please note in this Federal statute "Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof..."
Yes exactly. Do you know the definition of "Notwithstanding"? Well here is it,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/notwithstanding
not?with?stand?ing (ntwth-stndng, -w-)
prep.
In spite of: The teams played on, notwithstanding the rain.
adv.
All the same; nevertheless: We proceeded, notwithstanding.
conj.
In spite of the fact that; although.
So what that statement reads;
In spite of (or; no matter what ) any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any
person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from
transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to
transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he
may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place
where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during
such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the
firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible
or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such
transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle
without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the
firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container
other than the glove compartment or console.
quote:
The Federal statute states you can carry and transport as I stated and have researched. It however, as I noted, is a problem with the states! Each state has its own regulation in regards to transporting and or carrying pistols on your person, off your property. In fact some states or cities, as New York, do not even allow such. That is not Constitutionally legal in my opinion but nonetheless could land you in court if you wish to test it.
That is the whole point of this law. It allows LAWFUL transport of firearms from legal point to legal point even if passing though states it would not normally be legal as long as you follow the provisions of the statute. If this was not the case there would be no reason for this law. Before 1986 you HAD to know the law for each state, county, city that you might be traveling though. This is almost impossible to do so this is one of the laws that the NRA loves to cheer on since they got it passed.
quote:
I may not have time tonight but yes can quote a gun lawyer who states you cannot depend on the Federal statute to bail you out if conflicting with state laws.
I know I can research gun carry permits and quote state laws which say you must have a permit to transport/carry a "pistol". For the life of me I cannot see anyone arguing this and as my Police Chief neighbor/friend has also confirmed (Alabama).
To carry a concealed firearm you would need a concealed permit that was valid for each state you were going to carry in. I am not sure what you are talking about arguing what or what the Police Chief has to do with any of this.
quote:
This is why I will be getting a carry permit soon which is recognized in various states with "similar" laws. States with differing laws will not recognize my carry/concealed permit. I forget the technical name for this but will begin researching for you as I do not post things which I am not confident in.
My question was whether a black powder gun was exempt. I read as Louisiana does not address antique guns then they are treated as any modern pistol. I will also post that as soon as possible.
Thanks, Ralph
Getting a concealed permit is a great way to go. Again unlike the Federal statue it does not cover you in places that your permit is not valid.
The whole point of the 1986 FOPA was to make it legal for people to travel and have to worry about not only state but local, since some states have laws that change every time you cross a county or city line, laws. I am not sure how much clearer or how else to make it more clear but it IS 100% legal to transport any firearm though any part of the US as long as you follow the statute which basically says it is unloaded and in a secure place.
It is your choice to choose not to use this law, but that does not change the fact that it is a valid law.
0
-
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
From, http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=439084
quote:Originally posted by Ralph III
You are quoting the Federal statute correct? Please note in this Federal statute "Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof..."
Yes exactly. Do you know the definition of "Notwithstanding"? Well here is it,
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/notwithstanding
not?with?stand?ing (ntwth-stndng, -w-)
prep.
In spite of: The teams played on, notwithstanding the rain.
adv.
All the same; nevertheless: We proceeded, notwithstanding.
conj.
In spite of the fact that; although.
So what that statement reads;
In spite of (or; no matter what ) any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any
person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from
transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to
transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he
may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place
where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during
such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the
firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible
or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such
transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle
without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the
firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container
other than the glove compartment or console.
quote:
The Federal statute states you can carry and transport as I stated and have researched. It however, as I noted, is a problem with the states! Each state has its own regulation in regards to transporting and or carrying pistols on your person, off your property. In fact some states or cities, as New York, do not even allow such. That is not Constitutionally legal in my opinion but nonetheless could land you in court if you wish to test it.
That is the whole point of this law. It allows LAWFUL transport of firearms from legal point to legal point even if passing though states it would not normally be legal as long as you follow the provisions of the statute. If this was not the case there would be no reason for this law. Before 1986 you HAD to know the law for each state, county, city that you might be traveling though. This is almost impossible to do so this is one of the laws that the NRA loves to cheer on since they got it passed.
quote:
I may not have time tonight but yes can quote a gun lawyer who states you cannot depend on the Federal statute to bail you out if conflicting with state laws.
I know I can research gun carry permits and quote state laws which say you must have a permit to transport/carry a "pistol". For the life of me I cannot see anyone arguing this and as my Police Chief neighbor/friend has also confirmed (Alabama).
To carry a concealed firearm you would need a concealed permit that was valid for each state you were going to carry in. I am not sure what you are talking about arguing what or what the Police Chief has to do with any of this.
quote:
This is why I will be getting a carry permit soon which is recognized in various states with "similar" laws. States with differing laws will not recognize my carry/concealed permit. I forget the technical name for this but will begin researching for you as I do not post things which I am not confident in.
My question was whether a black powder gun was exempt. I read as Louisiana does not address antique guns then they are treated as any modern pistol. I will also post that as soon as possible.
Thanks, Ralph
Getting a concealed permit is a great way to go. Again unlike the Federal statue it does not cover you in places that your permit is not valid.
The whole point of the 1986 FOPA was to make it legal for people to travel and have to worry about not only state but local, since some states have laws that change every time you cross a county or city line, laws. I am not sure how much clearer or how else to make it more clear but it IS 100% legal to transport any firearm though any part of the US as long as you follow the statute which basically says it is unloaded and in a secure place.
It is your choice to choose not to use this law, but that does not change the fact that it is a valid law.
Sorry for missing the "nonwithstanding" and that is what I wanted to be shown. Something hard and as I can print out. That is the way it should be also!
I will have to research still further as a "gun lawyer" in another forum said the opposite. He stated and gave a court case with prosecution, which shown the Federal provision not fully adequate in lieu of state law.
My state, Alabama, emphatically states you cannot carry or transport a "pistol" without a carry/concealed permit, with exceptions as noted. It also lists the "reciprocal" states as I was speaking of. See 13A-11-74 and 13A-11-75. This as my Police Chief also confirmed.
The law, requiring a permit, regards transporting pistols in addition to concealed; a sheriff "may issue a license to such person to carry a pistol in a vehicle or concealed on or about his person...."
I attempted to contact the NRA in regards but could not get an answer.
Ralph0 -
Ok NWCID,
This is from the NRA which states the limitations of the FOPA. http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=59
While mosts states do adhere to the Federal Provision, it does note numerous states that do not and/or which have strict provisions thereof. The broad scope of FOPA would not protect you given such.
Numerous states, such as Connecticut, emphatically state you must have a carry permit to transport a pistol. Other states, such as New York, ban you from it all together unless a licensed resident.
I don't think I will have a problem down here but the Federal Provision is not a cure all, unfortunetly.
These things, as noted by the NRA itself.
quote:Many states have laws governing the transportation of firearms. Also, many cities and localities have ordinances restricting their transportation. Travelers must be aware of these laws and comply with the legal requirements in each jurisdiction. There is no uniform state transportation procedure for firearms.
quote:In most states, personally-owned firearms may be transported legally if they are unloaded, cased, and locked in the automobile trunk.
The exceptions to this rule apply mainly to interstate transportation of handguns. The myriad and conflicting legal requirements for firearm transportation through the states make caution the key for travelers.
So unless you have something definitive to add, we should be cautious in giving legal advice with broad strokes. Unfortunetly, my concerns and in regards to what I had read were quite well founded. I will simply have to contact the state authorities to confirm such.
Take care, Ralph0 -
Well we will just have to disagree then. I just cant figure out what else the FOPA is for if it is not for being able to transport firearms legally.
The FOAP is meant to protect traveling firearms owners. It does not replace state law. If you are a resident of Alabama then you MUST follow the state laws. If your trip starts or ends in Alabama then the FOAP does not apply. Again this law is to protect travelers with legal firearms doing legal things and is very specific about what it covers.
So say I am a resident of Texas and I own a Glock 17 and am driving to Florida for a vacation and plan on doing some shooting while I am there. This is legal in Texas and legal in Florida. I will pass though Alabama as long as the gun is unloaded and is not readily accessible then it would be legal. Now if I was going from Texas to Alabama on vacation and I bought my gun I would HAVE to follow the Alabama state law. The FOPA is ONLY for traveling though states from a legal place to a legal place.
You have 3 different things going on here. You have several different laws here that you are dealing with and they all mean different things. YES the things you have quoted are true in their own form. I know you keep talking about getting concealed weapon permits that allow you to carry in more then one state. Those are a great idea but have a whole different set of rules. Here is a good site for that, http://www.handgunlaw.us/
How do you get a pistol home from a gun shop if you live in Alabama?0 -
quote:Originally posted by Ralph III
Hello,
I am hoping this is an active forum as need some advice.
Can an 1851 replica black powder colt navy be transported via car between Louisiana and Alabam, via Mississippi??
Thanks, Ralph
Yes. Make sure it is not loaded, which means it cannot be capped, place it into a locked box inside your trunk and enjoy your trip.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
Mail it to your destination, if you can, and don't worry about it.
Being mailed it would still have to travel though those states by ground in a car..........
I doubt the shipping companies have special routes just for this.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Ralph III
I replied to your post with two follow ups, in regards to transporting a antique/replica pistol.
According to the NRA itself, the Federal Law is indeed limited. States do have laws which are contrary or ambiguous as I was stating and feared.
If you have some additional insight or would like to note this, so as to avoid misleading others, I would appreciate that.
I would much prefer your interpretation and the broad scope of FOPA, but seems limited indeed.
Ralph
Ok, so I got home and read the NRA link. The Federal Law literally says as long as you follow the statue there are no exceptions. The NRA link says there are some exceptions and lists all the state law exemptions.
I am not a lawyer and can not answer why that is. Either the Federal law as written has no exemptions is valid or is it not. If it is not valid in those areas then the Federal law need to be changed to reflect those exemptions.
I was hoping one of our other well versed members would give some input on this but it appears that is not going to happen.
I think all of them are just praying that we can get to ten posts ASAP and lock this one once and for all!0 -
After all of this .... aren't we just about to the 10 post limit? 0 -
Hello Nwcid and Others,
quote:Quote by Nwcid..........
"Ok, so I got home and read the NRA link. The Federal Law literally says as long as you follow the statue there are no exceptions. The NRA link says there are some exceptions and lists all the state law exemptions...". Yes, therein lies the dilema as I have been pointing out the entire time! I made the comment, as the NRA confirms, that some bad advice was being given on this thread which could land someone in jail and/or with a record. You challenged my statement and concerns and asked me to disprove the broad scope of FOPA. Unfortunetly, that has occured. Again, I just wanted to know if an antique/black powder gun was exempt.
quote:Quote by Nwcid.... "I am not a lawyer and can not answer why that is. Either the Federal law as written has no exemptions is valid or is it not. If it is not valid in those areas then the Federal law need to be changed to reflect those exemptions".I agree! However as noted earlier, I am not willing to go to jail nor my father-in-law, over personal opinions no matter how good the intentions. I had hoped a gun lawyer would step forward with facts especially for Al. Ms. and La. At this time neither of us have a carry permit, which would solve the problem, but as he is leaving tomorrow...
quote:Quote by Nwcid....."I was hoping one of our other well versed members would give some input on this but it appears that is not going to happen." I agree. But as noted, you should be careful in giving advice as an expert or scholar only to later admit you are not. You seemed absolutely sure before but now you are not. So now we are both in the same boat.
quote:Quote by Nwcid.......
"I think all of them are just praying that we can get to ten posts ASAP and lock this one once and for all!"Nwcid, this is not a debate. I am very good at such but in this case I simply want the absolute facts. To have been proven wrong in this instance would have been sheer joy for me.
I would think this an extremely important topic which should be fully addressed for all of us gun owners! I don't think it should be ended simply because you or I were wrong on a point. Here is a link to another thread in regards to transporting a gun and FOPA; http://thehighroad.us/showthread.php?t=404795. They seem to be very aware of the laws and dilemas and as the NRA denotes. To beleive FOPA is all encompassing is an apparent act of poor judgement.
Here are a few quotes from that thread....
quote: "Sorry, but that's entirely up to the whim of cops and prosecutors..."
"There are certain States that don't consider themselves covered by the FOPA...."
"I don't dispute that that's the NJ law or that FOPA is applicable to all states. I was commenting on the reality that exists. If a trooper on the NJ pike finds a gun in your car, inaccessible or not, you're going to the tank..."
"FOPA is not going to help here...The part of FOPA that "suggests" (but does not spell out)..."
"...it's fairly well documented that NYPD will arrest anyone found with a handgun and without a NY permit, regardless of how clearly legal they are under FOPA..."
"...And in NYS that means almost certain prison time..."
"I have been told...the rule book for officers of the New York City Police --- instructs officers to arrest ANYONE found with a firearm...if that person does not have a New York City permit..."
An apparent lawsuit over the last one as blatantly illegal. NRA however denotes many examples/exemptions to FOPA of which apparently are legal...
Take care, Ralph0 -
In my opinion there is absolutely no reason to come back with Part III, so we are done. 0
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