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Kel-Tec PMR-30

jthoresen
I searched for info on the Kel-Tec PMR-30 on this forum and came up with a 1 yr. old thread discussing mostly ballistics.

I would like to get one. Went to Cabellas and they told me they canceled their order for the gun because of too many feed and extraction issues.

Emailed Kel-Tec and they said "after a brief" re-work with the pistol they had resolved all the issues and started production again and are having a hard time keeping up with demand.

Has anyone recently bought and shot one? Comments on reliability and any problems experienced since the "re-work" appreciated.
Thanks

If this is not the appropriate sub forum, mods please move
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Comments

6 comments

Date Votes
  • jthoresen
    Any experts have any thoughts on the upcoming Kel-Tec PMR-30?

    It's got some cool technology (blowback/locked-breech system) (30 rounds)
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  • beantownshootah
    quote:Originally posted by jthoresen
    Any experts have any thoughts on the upcoming Kel-Tec PMR-30?

    It's got some cool technology (blowback/locked-breech system) (30 rounds)


    This is a remake/upgrade of the earlier Grendel .22 WMR pistol, also designed by Nils Kelgren (of Kel-tec). That gun, unfortunately, came out right at the time of the Clinton gun ban, effectively knee-capping it. (EG what's the point of a 30 round WMR pistol that's limited to 10 round mags?).

    This new gun is more or less the same gun, with fiber optic sights, an upgraded look, and a frame-rail.

    Probably the most innovative thing here is the magazine, which uses an interesting divider separating the rims into two stacks, but leaving the bullet noses into one. The gun feeds the two stacks into dual-feed ramps like a M4 .223 semi-auto rifle. That's how you get 30 rimfire rounds into a non-banana shaped magazine.

    Anyway, cool as it may be, I consider this largely to be a novelty pistol. For the overall size package, you can get a far more effective defensive gun than one in .22WMR. The .22WMR round itself is really intended for use in a RIFLE, so I don't see a lot of use for this from a pistol (eg for hunting).

    Edit #1:
    Here is the old Grendel p30, the precursor to this new PMR-30:
    1582037398_2887366332.jpg

    If/when Kelgren puts out a CARBINE version of this gun, then I will start to get interested.

    Edit #2: Ballistics?

    For what its worth, Kel-Tec claims 1230 fps muzzle velocity from this PMR-30 for a 40 grain .22 WMR round. Compare to about 2000 fps for the same round from a rifle, and you'll see the rifle gives you literally 60% more velocity and 160%(!) more kinetic energy from the same round. Again, the .22 magnum round is just meant for rifles. From pistols, the extra unburned powder just gets converted into a big muzzle flash.

    Now lets compare to the best commonly available 40 grain .22 long rifle ammo, the CCI "Velocitor". Note that in my opinion, this is a perfectly fair comparison since Velocitor ammo costs about the same or less than ordinary .22 magnum ammo, (about $8 a box for Velocitor vs $8-10 a box for any .22 magnum).

    The velocitor should yield you about 1100 fps from a pistol and about 1400 fps from a rifle. Note also that the Velocitor uses a supposedly excellent hollowpoint bullet, designed to offer good expansion and weight retention for hunting.

    In other words, the best .22LR from a RIFLE is still going to outperform the .22 magnum from a PISTOL.

    Comparing pistol-to-pistol, the .22 magnum is more powerful than .22LR, but really, not that much so (1230 fps vs 1100 fps, give or take), and in my opinion, there isn't enough BALLISTIC advantage for me to bother with a .22WMR pistol. 98% of the time, whatever I wanted to do with this, I could do just as well with a cheaper .22LR.

    As a novelty with cool platform (30 round semiautomatic, fiber optics sights, rail, and gigantic fireball every time you pull the trigger). . .that's a different story!
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  • jthoresen
    beantownshootah,

    That's the kind of info I was looking for!!!

    Thanks,

    Jesse
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  • rufe-snow
    I have seen the velocity stats for .22 mag ammo fired in a pistol, as Beaner noted, the .22 mag ammo is optimized for a long barreled rifle, it sucks in a pistol. The muzzle velocity is approximately only 200 fps higher then a conventional .22 high velocity L.R. cartridge.

    My experience at a range next to a guy shooting one of the earlier .22 mag pistols, was ugly. Because of the slower burning powder used in the .22 mag cartridge the muzzle blast and flash was really bad. Trying to concentrate on your target when this guy was next to you blasting away was impossible.
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  • iwannausername
    Yup, 22 mag and 30 carbine are both known for BIG BLAST out of pistols.


    One thing about the 22wmr over 22lr in a pistol is the better constructed bullets - they are "real" jacketed bullets, so they may tend to stay together better and penetrate better than a 22LR even at the same velocity.

    quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
    I have seen the velocity stats for .22 mag ammo fired in a pistol, as Beaner noted, the .22 mag ammo is optimized for a long barreled rifle, it sucks in a pistol. The muzzle velocity is approximately only 200 fps higher then a conventional .22 high velocity L.R. cartridge.

    My experience at a range next to a guy shooting one of the earlier .22 mag pistols, was ugly. Because of the slower burning powder used in the .22 mag cartridge the muzzle blast and flash was really bad. Trying to concentrate on your target when this guy was next to you blasting away was impossible.
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  • quickmajik
    Well the odvious thing needed to get the most out of the Grendel II is a load with faster burning powder that keeps pressure as moderate as possible...
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