Custom Barrels of Yesteryear
I would be interested in hearing input and opinions about whether custom premium barrels of 30 or 40 years ago can compare to the premium barrels of today. For example, I am considering a custom rifle built maybe 40 years ago with a premium Douglas barrel. Has barrel technology improved so much in that time period that the potential accuracy of today's barrels is substantially better than the old ones? Or not?
0
-
Hi Steve,
I am not sure that the technology in which the barrels are actually are made has progressed, but I suspect it has. However, if it has not, the technology in which they are measured and guaged has, for sure.
In that, a barrel that was best 40 years ago, might not be on top of the heap by todays standards. In otherwords, they did not have the sorting technology 10 or 20 years ago that we have today. With that said, if they have that kind of instrumentation today to measure down to 0.00001" consistancy end to end of a barrel, to sort with, then that can also be harnessed to the process controls making the barrel. It depends on how high the resolution the production machinery is, and that is dependant on how much the bean counters want to spend to stay ahead in the game.
But at the worst, they have the technology to sort, and have different price tiers according to quality.
But, my mind say yes, that today's barrels are better, depending on how much you want to spend. Also, if you are using a barrel of yester year, has it been shot?, is it a burnt out take off? Just some things to look at.
Best0 -
Lets hope NONONSENCE sees this post and offers his opinion. This is right down his alley. 0 -
Agree...I would like to hear from nononsense. 0 -
I am looking at a custom made rifle, perhaps shot little or none, with a premium Douglas barrel, in 6.5-06 chambering. This rifle was probably built around 1975. This is the reason for the question.
I would use it mostly for longrange varminting, so its accuracy potential with handloads is important.0 -
stevecrea,
As always, I am humbled...[:I]
Unfortunately, this is still one of those yes and no answers.
The old barrel shops have been replaced by new, brighter spaces occupied by first rank CNC equipment run by skilled machine operators instead of by skilled craftsmen.
To a certain extent, the processes of making barrels hasn't really changed all that much in the time period discussed. We still have button barrels (Douglas, Hart, Lilja and others) and we still have cut rifling (Krieger, Bartlein, etc.) along with the prize of mass production, hammer forged. The basic processes haven't really changed but the rifling forms available now certainly have.
There is a significant improvement in the shape of the grooves and the sides of the lands as compared to 40 years ago.
The buttons and cutters (scrapers) are now made of better materials and are polished to a higher degree.
The lubricants necessary to manufacturing barrels have improved for all three types of barrels. This yields a better interior surface of the barrels.
Borescopes have grown by leaps so we can actually see if there is an inconsistency or irregularity in a new barrel which allows us to remove it from the body of available barrels so it can be started through the process again but for a larger caliber.
The controls used now to make the barrels have improved significantly. Now instead of a 100 year old sine bar rifling machine we have a CNC controller used to actuate the cutter with far greater precision and repeatability than ever before.
The materials (alloys) used to make barrels have been improved simply by the monitoring of the manufacturing process and the consistency of that manufacturing. The variances from batch to batch are getting smaller. We have a new awareness of the potential for other alloys more suited to some environments.
The treatment of the steel to enhance machineability and the treatments of the entire barrel itself have grown. Melonite treatments and cryogenic treatments have enhanced barrel life.
Coatings for barrels and bullets also add to the life expectancy of barrels along with improvements in powder formulations.
Have barrels changed for the better? Absolutely.
Are they more accurate? That should be a yes and probably is but there are so many other improvements besides just the barrels that contribute to the connotation of accuracy that it's hard to make that just a definitive yes. I think that the most significant improvement in accuracy is in the arena of optics and the widespread availability and use of better glass for shooting. We also have had significant improvements in bullet design and manufacturing leading to more consistency and therefore more accurate bullets. Most of the factors which affect accuracy have seen improvements not just the barrels.
In the long run though, a great barrel from from 40 years ago is still great today if it is in shootable condition. The improvements I see are in the consistency from barrel to barrel and attention to the details in the manufacturing processes.
Even folks like E.R. Shaw are producing better barrels than a couple of decades ago but they still don't match the quality of the better custom barrels today so they still lag behind by comparison, staying in the lower echelons.
That's the short and sketchy opinion. As usual, this could be stretched into a fairly long and comprehensive assessment but I just don't have the time... Maybe some of the other will help fill in the details and areas I glossed over.
If you have questions more specific to the topic, ask and we'll get more discussion going after some sleep.
Best.
Steve,
I just saw your latest entry and I say GO FOR IT. The cartridge is excellent, the barrels have been acknowledged as being good so as long as it was assembled properly as we've discussed before, it should be a winner.
Best.0 -
I bought myself an older, custom built rifle for Christmas, it has a 26" Douglas air guage barrel. The gun has put together in the mid to late 60s, it's got a Mauser 98 action, a Mashburn trigger, and is topped with a Luopold Pioneer scope with Buhler mounts. It's chambered in 250-3000, realy old school. I don't realy know how much it's been shot, but the barrel still looks mint, using a bore scope, and shoots one raged hole at 100 yards. I do know that the old guy who built it always bought the best when he put something together.
I tend to agree with the above post though, today if you spend the money, you'll get better consistancey from high end barrels.
For what it's worth.
W.D.0 -
I question that there were many independent production barrel makers (as opposed to custom makers of ones and twos) to choose from 40 years ago.
Douglas was one and he offered premium barrels at extra cost.
Straightness of deep hole drilling is critical in producing a high quality barrel.
High quality may still be achieved by selective grading of finished barrels.
Winchester's "One in One Thousand" guns of yesteryear had specially selected barrels.
One thing for sure is an improvement in barrel steels.0 -
Nononsense:
Thank you for the excellent information. That is very informative and helpful.
CapnMidnight:
This gives me hope that the rifle I am considering could be a shooter. After all, I would want .75 MOA or so as a minimum. I do not need .2 or .3 MOA for the rifle's intended purpose. I have yet to determine the exact length and weight of the barrel, but it is probably 24 inches and a moderate sporter weight. I do not know if this maker free-floated it or not, and how good the bedding is.
v35:
It is possible that this rifle has been shot little or none, and perhaps it has not even been broken-in and seasoned much. Yours and other comments about the barrel steel composition are informative and helpful.
Thank you to all for your input!!0 -
As nononsense said barrels have improved immensely since that time period. But so has everything else. Including technique. Shooting technique, cleaning, reloading etc. Just everything we do today in shooting has a better eye on it. But it doesn't negate the good barrels that did come out back then. Yes, it was more hit or miss as to super great accuracy back then. But when it hit, it's just as good as any good barrel of today.
The only way you are going to know how this shoots is to get it and try it. I was very, very happy with a Win 70 HB I had that I shot three groups of under .020" with. Needless to say, I've never done that again. My Savage .223 12FV I own now shoots great. I bought it just thinking I needed something to fit the accuracy bill. Somewhere down the road I would probably need to replace the barrel. I never expected the thing to shoot as good as it did. It's put together a number of sub .2 MOA groups. So, if you feel it can shoot good, give it a try. You never know. If it doesn't work out then you can sell it or use it for an action for a good barrel. Check everything out though before you go and dump it, if it doesn't work out. Sometimes it can be a bedding problem or a scope problem. Or, a scope problem with that rifle. A stock that isn't comfortable for you with it. You tend to come down behind it differently each time because of that.
Bottom line: There's a world of accuracy issues. Barrels are only an important part of it. I say go for it and see if it works. Sell it or rebuild it if it doesn't.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
9 comments