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Help identifying these Bayonets....

gooseta2
I was wondering if the Experts could help me ID these before I place them up for auction...They are from an estate and have no idea what rifles or era they are from....
CIMG3027.jpg
CIMG3028.jpg
CIMG3029.jpg
and the next..
CIMG3030.jpg
CIMG3031.jpg
CIMG3032.jpg
Thank you guys....
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Comments

7 comments

Date Votes
  • Spider7115
    The bottom one appears to be a US Model 1816 bayonet. Does it have a short groove from the tip to about 2" back?

    The scabbard is what's left of a Springfield .45-70 "trapdoor" bayonet, missing the leather "frog".
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  • rufe-snow
    The first one looks like a Japanese type 30 bayonet.
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  • team roper ozzy
    to me the bottom is for the civil war era springfield rifled musket but is missing to locking ring but im not 100 % on that
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by team roper ozzy
    to me the bottom is for the civil war era springfield rifled musket but is missing to locking ring but im not 100 % on that


    It's possible but I couldn't see any blood groove in the pic.
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  • lcdrdanr
    The top one is definitely a Japanese Model 1897 (AKA Type 30) bayonet, it's very similar to a Type 99 Bayonet but has a more rounded pommel. These are found with both the hooked quillion (guard) and a straight guard. The marking of what looks like a figure 8 inside a circle is that of the Nagoya Arsenal between 1923 and 1945. Fit and finish looks more like an earlier piece rather than the late war cruder verssions. With a scabbard but no frog, this might go from anywhere between $35 to $100 depending on overall condition and collector interest.

    Although it's probably a US Springfield M1816 missing the locking ring and in pretty much relic condition, the bottom one could be an early Prussian socket bayonet. I can't see the base to see if it is rounded or oval. There was a Prussian bayonet that had a Tee shaped slot and no locking ring, the lock was on the rifle rather than the bayonet. I don't have ready access to my references at this time and I'm not sure that it would have a lot of value other than as a wall decoration, it's condition tends to make it undesirable to collectors.

    The presence of the scabbard makes one wonder since it doesn't appear to go with either of the two bayonets.

    Dan R

    Edit to add: Missed the US Marking, obviously not a Prussian piece. A quick look at "Guide to Foreign & US Bayonets" by Dan Ernst shows a very similar piece with the tee groove and no locking ring, he id's it as a Hall Model 1819 Bayonet, OAL 19-1/4" with a 16" blade and 3" socket. Markings on blade of U.S./ TA/ M. Same reference shows a scabbard similar to that shown but it would have had a curved leather frog and a brass tip on the metal scabbard.

    Dan R
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by lcdrdanr
    The top one is definitely a Japanese Model 1897 (AKA Type 30) bayonet, it's very similar to a Type 99 Bayonet but has a more rounded pommel. These are found with both the hooked quillion (guard) and a straight guard. The marking of what looks like a figure 8 inside a circle is that of the Nagoya Arsenal between 1923 and 1945. Fit and finish looks more like an earlier piece rather than the late war cruder verssions. With a scabbard but no frog, this might go from anywhere between $35 to $100 depending on overall condition and collector interest.

    Although it's probably a US Springfield M1816 missing the locking ring and in pretty much relic condition, the bottom one could be an early Prussian socket bayonet. I can't see the base to see if it is rounded or oval. There was a Prussian bayonet that had a Tee shaped slot and no locking ring, the lock was on the rifle rather than the bayonet. I don't have ready access to my references at this time and I'm not sure that it would have a lot of value other than as a wall decoration, it's condition tends to make it undesirable to collectors.

    The presence of the scabbard makes one wonder since it doesn't appear to go with either of the two bayonets.

    Dan R


    A Prussian bayonet would not be stamped "US" on the ricasso. It's definitely American. The Model 1816 bayonet didn't have a locking ring and the bayonet pictured is not properly cast for one.
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  • gooseta2
    Thanks guys....you are a fountain of knowledge.....After i had asked the question I was look at my collection of Japanese Ammunition....and found the figure 8 in the circle on a few 30 mm rounds....
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