side folding stocks for AR15s
Ruger offers its mini-14 ATI model with a collapsible side folding stock. Para Ordnance offers an AR-15 with a similar stock. I like the AR-15 but not Para's $2000 dollar price tag. Does anyone make this type of stock that both collapses and folds to the side for AR-15s? I am familiar with Butler Creek and DPMS. They offer side folders but they don't collapse. Thanks in advance for the answers.
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Where do you think the buffer tube is on an AR15?
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For a side folder on a AR, it needs to be a piston gun not a gas impingment as AR'S are. And the recoil spring has to be on the piston like the Para. That's why the price is higher. Check out the price on piston AR'S. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
For a side folder on a AR, it needs to be a piston gun not a gas impingment as AR'S are. And the recoil spring has to be on the piston like the Para. That's why the price is higher. Check out the price on piston AR'S.
Sorry DCS that is not a correct statement. The way the gun cycles (DI, piston, or blowback) does not make any difference. It is the back half of the operating system that matters not the front half.
All guns need some way to make the bolt go back forward after being pushed back. In most AR's it is a spring mounted in the buffer tube that the stock is mounted to. Unless you mount the return spring somewhere else you will always need at least part of a stock/tube sticking out of the back of an AR.
Some companies have redesigned the AR to put the recoil spring in other places. It looks like PO picked up the old ZM style AR. That folding stock they show sells for $350, they are cool, but not that cool. I am not sure where the PO return spring is since there is not a lot of info on it, but I am guessing it is over the top of the barrel some how. Olympic Arms also makes one for about $1000 that works very similar.0 -
Yeah, NWCID has it.
Ordinary AR-15s use buffer tubes to house the recoil spring that by design stick out of the back of the receiver.
So while its possible to design a folding stock that slips around the buffer tube, the tube would still stick out of the back of the gun and having a folding stock wouldn't gain you anything.
This is why adjustable stocks on AR-15s are generally collapsible.
Now, you can have an AR-15-like gun with a modified recoil system that lets you put in a folding stock, but these are non-standard guns and usually quite pricey. As mentioned, Para-Ordnance has one, though there are others out there.0 -
cpermd: I'm not sure how this works having seen only a picture of the
the Para setup. That is why I asked...0 -
For dcs shooters: Thanks for a great answer. That helps. I am in the process of trying to decide which way to go with regard to several rifles. This all started with some encounters I have had with potential poachers on public land. The land is heavily wooded, very hilly, and consists of primitive bicycle trails that most go for more than 25 miles with many switchbacks. I have found deer, some killed within the hour, shotgun and rifle casings (spent), encountered people hiding possibly with guns, and some of those shooting on private land adjacent to the public land were so close that I am fairly certain they were shooting on the public side. I love winter and go when the weather is nastiest. I am usually the only one out, cell phones may or may not work, and I have reported all of this. I have my concealed carry permit and do. But I wouldn't mind having a .223 caliber rifle capable of folding up and being suspended down my back or front under a jacket. I wear jackets in XL but usually buy XXL so I can wear additional clothing under it. I don't get cold unless the temp gets around 10 or less so don't like Parkas and all that. Over the past 10 years I have encountered more and more creepy people and wanted some insurance. Some will think this is not a good idea and maybe they are right. But based on my experiences...Anyway, I like the Ruger mini-14 with the ATI stock. I also like AR-15s but, except for the Para, have not found one with a side folder. In addition, Para says their's is not a piston simple but a "delayed" gas impingement system. But the price...Again, thanks for a great answer. 0 -
Nwcid: you folks know way more about AR's than me so this helps. In fact, and maybe you can answer this question, I have been told that the collapsible stock on AR's is not as good as the solid stock because the return spring/tube or something doesn't function as well. It seems like this might not be true since so many people are using the M4. Anyway, your response has been a huge help in helping me decide which rifle to buy (or rifles) to fit the mission profile.
For Beantownshootah, I am finding out what you said to be so true. Very pricey. This kind of shoots down (no pun intended) and idea that I had but that is what this forum is for. I need to rethink my idea. The good news is that based on what has been posted, I may just have to buy two rifles instead of one...aw shucks.0 -
If that is what you want it for I'd look at the keltec carbines that fold in half and take Glock mags...
quote:Originally posted by NOTPARS
For dcs shooters: Thanks for a great answer. That helps. I am in the process of trying to decide which way to go with regard to several rifles. This all started with some encounters I have had with potential poachers on public land. The land is heavily wooded, very hilly, and consists of primitive bicycle trails that most go for more than 25 miles with many switchbacks. I have found deer, some killed within the hour, shotgun and rifle casings (spent), encountered people hiding possibly with guns, and some of those shooting on private land adjacent to the public land were so close that I am fairly certain they were shooting on the public side. I love winter and go when the weather is nastiest. I am usually the only one out, cell phones may or may not work, and I have reported all of this. I have my concealed carry permit and do. But I wouldn't mind having a .223 caliber rifle capable of folding up and being suspended down my back or front under a jacket. I wear jackets in XL but usually buy XXL so I can wear additional clothing under it. I don't get cold unless the temp gets around 10 or less so don't like Parkas and all that. Over the past 10 years I have encountered more and more creepy people and wanted some insurance. Some will think this is not a good idea and maybe they are right. But based on my experiences...Anyway, I like the Ruger mini-14 with the ATI stock. I also like AR-15s but, except for the Para, have not found one with a side folder. In addition, Para says their's is not a piston simple but a "delayed" gas impingement system. But the price...Again, thanks for a great answer.0 -
There is the theory (based on some fact) that the buffer tubed on collapsible stocks are not as strong because there is nothing else supporting them. With a solid stock the tube is the same strength as a collapsible but it is encased by the stock itself that butts up against the receiver.
So in theory if you do something that exceeds the strength of the tube it can bend. Again if used in this manner I think you have some bigger problems. I know there is at least one company selling heavier duty buffer tubes and they will tell you all day long how bad the standard ones are so they can sell theirs. If you plan on doing a lot of hammering, digging, pulling up nails, prying, ect with your stock then you might have a problem.
As far as actual function no real worries. Like anything else there are 1000's of times more normal (good) one as there are ones that have had problems but you hear more people talk about problems vs those that work right.
As far as what gun there are tons of choices out there. If you really want short, good, reliable, heavy hitting, ect you might look at an AK. Most of the AK's with folders are not as nice to shoot, not bad though. For what you are describing it might be a better bet for you. The price of the gun, a couple mags and a case of ammo will be less then an AR. There is also the AK-74 that still have very cheep ammo and a good caliber.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
As far as what gun there are tons of choices out there. If you really want short, good, reliable, heavy hitting, ect you might look at an AK. Most of the AK's with folders are not as nice to shoot, not bad though. For what you are describing it might be a better bet for you. The price of the gun, a couple mags and a case of ammo will be less then an AR. There is also the AK-74 that still have very cheep ammo and a good caliber.
+1.
Kalashniknov is inexpensive, reliable, powerful, and can easily take a folding stock. You can get one in 7.62x39, 5.45x39, or even a Saiga in .223.
The problem with the folding stock Kalashnikovs is that most of the standard side folding wire or underfolding designs aren't that comfortable to shoot.
There are a number of good side folding designs that lock well and are comfortable (Eg ACE has a Galil-like one, and K-VAR has one that mimics the AK-74 folder), but they're also sort of pricey.
Other serious drawback to a Kalashnikov is that these are HEAVY, considerably heavier than AR-15 carbines, and that may make this prohibitive for your use.
Yes, Kel-tec has a pistol-round gun, but it also offers a lightweight folding rifle in .223 that may be just what your are looking for:
This one is quite clever. I've never shot it, but it takes standard AR-15 mags, costs only about $500, and only weighs about 5 lbs! So long as the thing is reliable (and I cant comment on that), it would make the ultimate backpacking gun.0
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