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GMC Hydramatic M16A1 questions

Permanently deleted user
My buddy is into Class 3 stuff.

He has an oppertunity to buy a M16A1 made by GMC/Hydramatic. These are rare M16's, very few in the NFA registry, and this one is uncut.

Does anyone know who the correct manufacturer of the upper is, and what the markings would be? ditto the barrel?

looking at the pics provided, it looks like "L" and "R" on the r/h side under the rear sight on the carry handle. So it's not a Colt upper.

there is no pic (yet) of the barrel markings.

Also, IIRC, as manufactured, the original buttstock should not have the trap door for the cleaning kit (he had a H&R M16A1, and that did not have the trapdoor, same era).

Any info or links to info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Loaf
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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • dcs shooters
    On the upper, look and see if the LR is a LK. If it is, the upper was made by FN/ Kaiser. You can go to www.biggerhammer.net and see all the info there is on M-16 and AR- 15,s.
    We need the serial # and close up pictures of all markings to give you anymore info.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
    On the upper, look and see if the LR is a LK. If it is, the upper was made by FN/ Kaiser. You can go to www.biggerhammer.net and see all the info there is on M-16 and AR- 15,s.
    We need the serial # and close up pictures of all markings to give you anymore info.


    My mistake, it is "LM", which is Army Spares/Martin Marietta according to the link you provided. Thanks for the link.

    Does anyone know if this is the correct/original upper for the GMC/Hydramatic M16A1?
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  • cpermd
    The main thing he needs to check is the form 4.
    Make sure GM is listed as the mfgr.
    Many of these are rewelded receivers that had been demilled.
    I would even file the FOIA form to make sure that it an original.
    Form 3 and 4s have a way of "changing" over time.

    An original receiver and that tax stamp and piece of paper are what is important.

    A reweld is about $11,000.
    An original GM can go up to $18,000.

    CP
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  • Permanently deleted user
    quote:Originally posted by cpermd
    The main thing he needs to check is the form 4.
    Make sure GM is listed as the mfgr.
    Many of these are rewelded receivers that had been demilled.
    I would even file the FOIA form to make sure that it an original.
    Form 3 and 4s have a way of "changing" over time.

    An original receiver and that tax stamp and piece of paper are what is important.

    A reweld is about $11,000.
    An original GM can go up to $18,000.

    CP


    this gun comes with an x-ray of the lower, to show it was not a reweld.

    The ask is 23K.

    Kinda curious myself where it came from. The H&R's and GMC's were made circa 1969-71, so they wouldn't have been amnesty registered in 1968.

    Thanks for the reminder of the FIOA.
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  • sandwarrior
    PBJloaf,

    I don't know about the Hydramatic (Hydromatic?) but that is what I carried for most of my time in the 1st RGR BN. back in the early '80's. I wouldn't say they are rare. They actually outproduced Colt during that time period. Mine said General Motors, though, no Hydramatic. They produced the entire weapon as I understand. FWIW, the Colts looked prettier but my GM got me several perfect scores during rifle quals.

    Also, FWIW, I saw a couple 'statement of charges' (some via article 15's) that showed the rifle was originally purchased for $147 (and some change) by the United States Government. I don't laugh about those. Two of them were friends of mine who drowned during nighttime water ops. Both rifles were eventually recovered, but ruined after an extended period in the water.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    PBJloaf,

    I don't know about the Hydramatic (Hydromatic?) but that is what I carried for most of my time in the 1st RGR BN. back in the early '80's. I wouldn't say they are rare. They actually outproduced Colt during that time period. Mine said General Motors, though, no Hydramatic. They produced the entire weapon as I understand. FWIW, the Colts looked prettier but my GM got me several perfect scores during rifle quals.

    Also, FWIW, I saw a couple 'statement of charges' (some via article 15's) that showed the rifle was originally purchased for $147 (and some change) by the United States Government. I don't laugh about those. Two of them were friends of mine who drowned during nighttime water ops. Both rifles were eventually recovered, but ruined after an extended period in the water.


    sandwarrior -
    thank you for your input. When I said the GMC/Hydramatic M16A1's were rare, I meant for the transferable NFA guns. There are a lot of Colt M16A1's out there (though most are "civilian"), and some H&R USGI marked M16A1's, but the GMC's are rare.
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by PBJloaf
    quote:Originally posted by cpermd
    The main thing he needs to check is the form 4.
    Make sure GM is listed as the mfgr.
    Many of these are rewelded receivers that had been demilled.
    I would even file the FOIA form to make sure that it an original.
    Form 3 and 4s have a way of "changing" over time.

    An original receiver and that tax stamp and piece of paper are what is important.

    A reweld is about $11,000.
    An original GM can go up to $18,000.

    CP


    this gun comes with an x-ray of the lower, to show it was not a reweld.

    The ask is 23K.

    Kinda curious myself where it came from. The H&R's and GMC's were made circa 1969-71, so they wouldn't have been amnesty registered in 1968.

    Thanks for the reminder of the FIOA.



    FWIW, the last amnesty act was in 1986, not 1968. It was the GCA of 1968.

    Best
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  • cpermd
    quote:

    FWIW, the last amnesty act was in 1986, not 1968. It was the GCA of 1968.

    Best


    Not correct.

    CP
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by cpermd


    quote:

    FWIW, the last amnesty act was in 1986, not 1968. It was the GCA of 1968.

    Best


    Not correct.

    CP


    When was the last date one could legally register a class III weapon to make it transferrable? Did they not have a day of amnesty in 1986?

    EDIT1

    Thanks Mark.

    I went and looked, and it was the FOPA of 1986, that deemed the last day to build publicly transferrable NFA weapons as May 19th, 1986. If I am not mistaken, that was referring to weapons that were converted to, rather than built in NFA configuration.

    Best
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  • mark christian
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by PBJloaf
    quote:Originally posted by cpermd
    The main thing he needs to check is the form 4.
    Make sure GM is listed as the mfgr.
    Many of these are rewelded receivers that had been demilled.
    I would even file the FOIA form to make sure that it an original.
    Form 3 and 4s have a way of "changing" over time.

    An original receiver and that tax stamp and piece of paper are what is important.

    A reweld is about $11,000.
    An original GM can go up to $18,000.

    CP


    this gun comes with an x-ray of the lower, to show it was not a reweld.

    The ask is 23K.

    Kinda curious myself where it came from. The H&R's and GMC's were made circa 1969-71, so they wouldn't have been amnesty registered in 1968.

    Thanks for the reminder of the FIOA.



    FWIW, the last amnesty act was in 1986, not 1968. It was the GCA of 1968.

    Best


    The amnesty which ran until the end of Novemeber 1968 was the result of the 1968 Gun Control Act which mandated that all National Firearms Act weapons then in possession be registered. GMC M16s are extremely rare and there are very few in the registry. Even though GMC M16 production should have begun after the close of the 1968 amnesty these guns were registered after the cut off through the use of a "letter registration", which is a very complex and controversial registration of NFA weapons that took place after the amnesty ended. The bottom line is that so long as it is registered and is transferable you can buy it. Original M16s that are not re welds are a real prize and a GMC would give you bragging rights at just about any MG shoot!
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  • mark christian
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by cpermd


    quote:

    FWIW, the last amnesty act was in 1986, not 1968. It was the GCA of 1968.

    Best


    Not correct.

    CP


    When was the last date one could legally register a class III weapon to make it transferrable? Did they not have a day of amnesty in 1986?


    If it was in possession prior to November 1968 and not already registered the amnesty was provided to register any and all NFA firearms with no questions asked. After the amnesty only those NFA weapons that were new production could be registered. That means that if you had a early Vietnam era M16 and did not register it in the 1968 amnesty it could no longer be registered but a new M16 fresh off the line could be registered. The issue with the the GMC and other M16s that are US property marked is that the ONLY customer for their products was Uncle Sam, none were released for civilian sales, so they had to have found their way from Uncle Sam and without being amnesty registered that means THEFT! In 1986 the ability to registered NEW machine guns ended, but those already registered were allowed to be transferred.
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