Does anyone know of "counter sniper" optics?
I saw an ad for a $2,997 long range tactical scope that was being sold for $689 on sportsmans guide. It said they were "counter sniper" scopes, "U.S. military crusader scopes" or something like that anyway...
Does anyone have any experience with these? I figure it's too good to be true but I couldn't find much online and was wondering what this is all about.
Thanks, Bill
Does anyone have any experience with these? I figure it's too good to be true but I couldn't find much online and was wondering what this is all about.
Thanks, Bill
0
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A "counter sniper" is a sniper.
Why would this application require special optics?
Anyway, there are several threads out on this topic already. If you used the Gunbroker "search" feature for "counter sniper" you'd find them.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=385183
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=331818
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3976620 -
They spend more on their ads than they do on the scopes.
Avoid them.
CP0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
A "counter sniper" is a sniper.
Why would this application require special optics?
Anyway, there are several threads out on this topic already. If you used the Gunbroker "search" feature for "counter sniper" you'd find them.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=385183
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=331818
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=397662
A little sensitive are we? I'm not insulting your grandmother, I didn't name the optic or the company so don't go getting all twisted off about the "sniper/counter sniper" thing. And I wanted to get responses from and have a short, informative conversation with actual people - not read what a bunch of guys talked about 4 months ago. If you don't want to give me your opinion than just don't respond.
quote:Originally posted by cpermd
They spend more on their ads than they do on the scopes.
Avoid them.
CP
Now that's what I'm looking for, thanks CP0 -
Riflescopes are a given. Direct correlation of price and quality in [riflescope] instances.
As you have said 'too good to be true', I, when I was a newcomer to these forums, would have posed the question myself.
Over the years of following these posts, and occasionally having first-hand experience with the subject matter, I no longer question, because I've been following the posts!
..and that takes time. Beantownshootah understood that you don't know him, and was directing you to others to establish bona-fides vis-a-vis the addressed subject.
Conclusion: stay away from the product. Seek out what the military accuracy shooters are using while deployed to theatre. Don't look for the 'good deal'. In rifle optics, price and quality are linked together.
I won't veer off-topic with recommendations. Get back to us if you want a run-down on what works, and what doesn't. Best, Joe0 -
BillOrr,
As others have directed, there is no free lunch in optics. No way will a $3k scope get sold for under a grand, unless it is a refurb.
The term "Counter Sniper", is a marketing term, made to sell products. The Sniper's themselves use the absolute best there is, so anything less would be inferrior.
If you want really decent glass, it starts with the Burris Signature Select, and Tactical Extreme, then goes to the Leupold Mk4, then Night Force and to Schmidt & Binder...in order of increasing quality and price. Therre are a few other's in there like Swarovski, IOR, and Zeiss.
There are several topics on this forum about glass, I would suggest to you to use the search, and educate yourself before you go tearing up someone trying to help.
Best0 -
quote:Originally posted by BillOrr
I saw an ad for a $2,997 long range tactical scope that was being sold for $689 on sportsmans guide. It said they were "counter sniper" scopes, "U.S. military crusader scopes" or something like that anyway...
Does anyone have any experience with these? I figure it's too good to be true but I couldn't find much online and was wondering what this is all about.
Thanks, Bill
hello Bill, you are talking to a guy with 5 of the "Counter Sniper" scopes, i have 3 of the 2-16X-44, one 3-9X-42 and one 5-25X-42, i had a 1-4X-24 and it fell apart inside, one of the internal glass come lose from it's mounting device, i returned it and got one of the 2-16X, i am not one bit happy with them, one of my carbines is a 1/2"- 1" tack driving gun, but with the 2-16X scopes the best groups can attain is 6" groups, totally unacceptable, they have a 100% money back guarantee, so am about to exercise that option on all 5 scopes and use the money to buy a couple of "GOOD" scopes.
if you need any further info just ask.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
BillOrr,
As others have directed, there is no free lunch in optics. No way will a $3k scope get sold for under a grand, unless it is a refurb.
The term "Counter Sniper", is a marketing term, made to sell products. The Sniper's themselves use the absolute best there is, (would you mind naming them ? or is it that you do not know what the "REAL" snipers use ??) so anything less would be inferrior.
If you want really decent glass, it starts with the Burris Signature Select, and Tactical Extreme, then goes to the Leupold Mk4, then Night Force and to Schmidt & Binder... (are these the ones used by the "REAL" snipers ?? would you mind posting the URLs to these products ? that might just be very helpful to Bill and most likely many others, myself included, don't say "use the search function" i have done this and mostly come up more confused than before.) in order of increasing quality and price. Therre are a few other's in there like Swarovski, IOR, and Zeiss.
There are several topics on this forum about glass, I would suggest to you to use the search, and educate yourself before you go tearing up someone trying to help. (i do not believe Bill is "tearing up" anyone, he is just a bit frustrated as i would be when asking for help and info, and he gets a ration of BS and reference to old info, if you read my note to him this is what i hope he was looking for, current info by an actual user....., ME !!!!
have a great weekend)
Best0 -
BillOrr,
Wow!...nothing like coming into a panty-bunching contest first thing in the morning. I just wish you guys all looked like the hot models I see in the gun magazine ads.
Anyhow, there is such a thing as a 'counter-sniper' scope. Think of it this way, a sniper scope has to have enough power to see the target. It has to have enough adjustment to get the bullet to the target. The counter sniper scope has to be able to see small details because the sniper it is hunting is well hidden and the only way to see him is up close details. Generally they are higher power and have larger objectives.
That is a general rule. Because snipers get hunted in different ways. And in many cases the rules then flip-flop. So, the term lends itself well to marketing.
As for what the military uses? It definitely ain't that POS that Sportsmans Guide is selling. {edit: It's sad the Chinese are actually getting that much for the crap they put on our shores} The Army still primarily uses the Leupold MK4. But some Mk3's are still in use and in some cases Snipers get upgrades to Nightforce (buy on demand contract) USO and Premiere Reticles. USO and Premier both have Refurbed the Marine Corp MST-100's. Some of which are still in use. The Marines, and for the most part Navy, use Schmidt & Bender. They swear up and down by them. Hensholdt (an old division of Zeiss) now has a military contract and supposedly they beat the Schmidt& Bender hands down. so to boil it down they use a lot of stuff.
As for the scope you are looking at in Sportsmans Guide. Leave it alone. Better yet offer them $10 for it. Because that is about what it's worth.0 -
quote:Originally posted by USN_Airdale
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
BillOrr,
As others have directed, there is no free lunch in optics. No way will a $3k scope get sold for under a grand, unless it is a refurb.
The term "Counter Sniper", is a marketing term, made to sell products. The Sniper's themselves use the absolute best there is, (would you mind naming them ? or is it that you do not know what the "REAL" snipers use ??) so anything less would be inferrior.
If you want really decent glass, it starts with the Burris Signature Select, and Tactical Extreme, then goes to the Leupold Mk4, then Night Force and to Schmidt & Binder... (are these the ones used by the "REAL" snipers ?? would you mind posting the URLs to these products ? that might just be very helpful to Bill and most likely many others, myself included, don't say "use the search function" i have done this and mostly come up more confused than before.) in order of increasing quality and price. Therre are a few other's in there like Swarovski, IOR, and Zeiss.
There are several topics on this forum about glass, I would suggest to you to use the search, and educate yourself before you go tearing up someone trying to help. (i do not believe Bill is "tearing up" anyone, he is just a bit frustrated as i would be when asking for help and info, and he gets a ration of BS and reference to old info, if you read my note to him this is what i hope he was looking for, current info by an actual user....., ME !!!!
have a great weekend)
Best
USN_Airdale,
The real snipers use many, but to my knowledge the US has in service NightForce, and Schmidt & Binder, and Leupold. Hard telling what you and the thirdworld countries use.
Yes...I do use Night Force, S&B, and Burris.
The info he was pointed to is still good, and there is lots of it...perhaps you too should read it, before you start blowing off. Your rant is absolutely worthless as to an EXPERT opinion.
When links were posted, the conversation turned offensive, so why would one want to post anymore. I am figuring if you are smart enough to be offensive, then you are smart enough to type in www.burrisoptics.com...but I could be wrong.
Now is there anything else you would like to know?0 -
quote:Originally posted by BillOrr
A little sensitive are we? I'm not insulting your grandmother, I didn't name the optic or the company so don't go getting all twisted off about the "sniper/counter sniper" thing. And I wanted to get responses from and have a short, informative conversation with actual people - not read what a bunch of guys talked about 4 months ago. If you don't want to give me your opinion than just don't respond.
Huh? What's wrong with you?
You asked about "countersniper" scopes, and I gave you my opinion.
Actually, I gave you a lot more than "my" opinion, since I linked to about 10 other people's opinions, so you could get a cross section. I think there is good information in those posts. . .should you choose to look at them.
Since it seems clear that you didn't get my point, I'll make it a little more explicit. . .in the context you are asking about, "countersniper" is mostly a marketing gimmick.
Have fun hunting snipers. Don't forget to post again if you get any!0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by BillOrr
A little sensitive are we? I'm not insulting your grandmother, I didn't name the optic or the company so don't go getting all twisted off about the "sniper/counter sniper" thing. And I wanted to get responses from and have a short, informative conversation with actual people - not read what a bunch of guys talked about 4 months ago. If you don't want to give me your opinion than just don't respond.
Huh? What's wrong with you?
You asked about "countersniper" scopes, and I gave you my opinion.
Actually, I gave you a lot more than "my" opinion, since I linked to about 10 other people's opinions, so you could get a cross section. I think there is good information in those posts. . .should you choose to look at them.
Since it seems clear that you didn't get my point, I'll make it a little more explicit. . .in the context you are asking about, "countersniper" is mostly a marketing gimmick.
Have fun hunting snipers. Don't forget to post again if you get any!
Look I'm sorry - It's been a hard month and I'm probably PMSing but here's my problem:
I don't get on this forum very often and when I do I usually have a quick question that can be answered easily and usually with yes/no or a brief explination of how it works, etc. But lately when I get on here and ask or post I get these rabbit trail answers that don't really have much to do with the original question. Now mind - it's not just you but there are some very opinionated people here that seem to have these egos that they can't set aside for simple answers. They just tend to get into these discussions on whether WWII russian 8 mm ammo was loaded with corrosive primers or not - completely off subject - or what a "counter sniper" is - completely off subject - or whether it's a "clip" or "magazine" or if we should call it a "weapon", "firearm" or "gun", and if a firearm not used by a "sniper" should be called a "sniper rifle" and the list goes on and on.
I understand that you are trying to help but if I had walked into a shop that sells optics and asked the same questions I would have gotten a yes or no answer and people would be happy to tell me of their experience or what they had heard about the optic or company. Not tell me to reference a previous conversation or give me a list of websites. I can look stuff up online till I'm blue in the face but until I ask an expert, or someone with experience I usually don't go with what I read online. And this site is great cause there's a ton of guys in one spot who have been there and done it and for the most part are happy to oblige. But lately I'm frustrated cause I can't get good answers - just a lot of opinions off the subject. Again, don't mean to bite your head off, just want real-time yes or no answers.
Thanks for the input regardless, looks like I'll be staying away from "counter sniper" optics...0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
Have fun hunting snipers. Don't forget to post again if you get any!
I got two this morning,
They were getting into my trash can in the side yard.
Danged snipers... that'll teach 'em.0
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