Need help Identifying Winchester
Just picked this one up. Winchester 1897 12GA. Has 24" FULL choke barrel which I find no mention of. Does not look to be cut down & I measured muzzle diameter - .694 - Serial # 4574xx. Matching serials. Takedown model. Also marking on right side of receiver 9 MAX . Could this be an early riot-gun? (The recoil pad looks to have been added)
JLS
JLS
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My uncle recently passed away and left me with his Winchester rifle. I don't know too much about guns, but I think it's a Winchester model 70 with a custom (carbon fiber?) stock. If anyone could help me identify it and find out how much it's worth I'd very much appreciate it. Here are some pictures:
Thanks.
Adam0 -
BTT . Bert needs to see this one, apparentlly someone gave him the weekend off. 0 -
I'm sure the recoil pad was added. Bert sent me an email this morning, he must be AWOL this evening.
W.D.0 -
Not AWOL... just busy all day helping my wife's nephew move into his new house... my back & knees are killing me right now, and I have my doubts that the cold 6-pack I am in the midst of is going to help me much[B)].
As for the Model 1897 in question, it is very doubtful that it left the factory with a 24-inch barrel. Winchester manufactured the first Model 1897 Riot Guns in the year 1897 (well before this gun was made in mid year 1909), and they were all made a 20-inch "CYL" marked barrel. The "FULL" marking indicates to me that it was originally a Field gun, and most likely with a 30" barrel.
Winchester also offer the Model 1897 with 26, 28, 30, and 32 inch barrels, but never any with a 24 inch barrel.
Based on what I can see in the posted pictures, the butt stock is not the correct one for the 1909 vintage, and the recoil pad is definitely not factory. I have no idea what the "9 MAX" marking means, but it too is not a factory marking.0 -
Thanks for the input Bert.
Took some pics of muzzle end of barrel. I measured all around & at tip I came up with .694 - .698 then measuring 3/4" of an inch in I got .698 - .708 .This seems to me to correspond with Full choke. The sight is located .455 from end to center. If it were cut wouldn't the diameter measure much higher? Took down the barrel & remeasured length, It is dead on 24" from end of threads to end of barrel. (Other marks on Barrel thrown in for reference) - Pat. dates - NOV,25.90.DEC,6.92.FEB,22.98.JUNE,14.98.OCT,16.1900.DEC,25.06. - with larger "12 GA."./ FULL on left side./ Underneath Triangle & 3.
JLS0 -
The front bead type on your gun is not factory original, nor is the distance from the muzzle correct, both of which indicate that the barrel is not original.
I measured the first four Model 1897s I took out of my safe, and the front beads were all .500" from the muzzle, and they are all brass (and appear to be smaller in diameter than the bead on your gun).
I have no explantion for the barrel constriction you are measuring.0 -
just to note, you would not be able to measure choke AND barrel interior dia. with the pictured caliper. the coke starts about 2"+ in back of the muzzle, tapers for about 1", and then about 1" of 'choke' dia. Your barrel was probably cut with a pipe cutter as this forms a small ridge just in back of the muzzle. 0 -
Thanks for the replies,
But I have to say the barrel looks original.Has proper markings & brown patina matches throughout.Sight bead may have been changed but sight hole is 1/2" from muzzle. Also there is no ridge or evidence of barrel being cut. Measured 1 1/2" to 2" in & still received readings corresponding with full choke. I am going to take to several gunsmiths tomorrow to get other opinions & measurements. I will post with results. Don't get me wrong - I value & appreciate your input.
JLS0 -
quote:Originally posted by jls1888
Thanks for the replies,
But I have to say the barrel looks original.Has proper markings & brown patina matches throughout.Sight bead may have been changed but sight hole is 1/2" from muzzle. Also there is no ridge or evidence of barrel being cut. Measured 1 1/2" to 2" in & still received readings corresponding with full choke. I am going to take to several gunsmiths tomorrow to get other opinions & measurements. I will post with results. Don't get me wrong - I value & appreciate your input.
JLS
You stated in a previous post that the bead is .455" from the end of the barrel to the center of the bead[?]0
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