luger carbine
Hello
I'm hoping to get some information on a DWM LUGER I have obtained. First let me give you what I do know as well as what I THINK I know about this. What I have is a LUGER 16" bbl. carbine with the buttstock attachment. Now I know this is enough to get everyone interested but let me explain before everyone wets themselves. The pistol has a DWM scroll toggle which has a very faint 49 on the back which has been almost covered by a reblue. The frame and bbl.are matching 4 digit #'s and all parts carry matching last 2 digits, the frame is marked 1916 on the bar just above the takedown lever,the only other markings on the pistol are on the frame just above this date and are (left to right) what appears to be a crown with a cross inside ?? next is a capital M with the same crown on top and then the same M with crown repeated, additionally the area beneath safety is marked "GESICHERT" (I.E. SAFE) The wood is not original and I see the hand of some "gunsmith" in the forend attachment method. Although it is nicely done it has excluded the eustachion pin and replaced it with a screw arrangement through the bottom. Both the grip panels and forend are uncheckered and the buttstock does not appear to have been original to the gun, although it is very nicely done and in the correct style the woods match well. The pistol functions fine, fires well, and is very tight and clean, the bore is excellent. The weapon was originally purchased from an east coast pawn shop in 1953 and has been held by the same individual until my aquisition.
Here is what I believe I have. It is my understanding that during the early 1950"s and later in the early 70"s there were several of these units made up from various sources utilizing original parts as much as possible and replacing pieces with other Luger parts available at the time as necessary to build a complete gun??
Thank you everyone for taking the time to read this any information would be greatly appreciated. I am not a Luger collector but I do know this to be a very unusual and potentially expensive piece of Luger history.
I'm hoping to get some information on a DWM LUGER I have obtained. First let me give you what I do know as well as what I THINK I know about this. What I have is a LUGER 16" bbl. carbine with the buttstock attachment. Now I know this is enough to get everyone interested but let me explain before everyone wets themselves. The pistol has a DWM scroll toggle which has a very faint 49 on the back which has been almost covered by a reblue. The frame and bbl.are matching 4 digit #'s and all parts carry matching last 2 digits, the frame is marked 1916 on the bar just above the takedown lever,the only other markings on the pistol are on the frame just above this date and are (left to right) what appears to be a crown with a cross inside ?? next is a capital M with the same crown on top and then the same M with crown repeated, additionally the area beneath safety is marked "GESICHERT" (I.E. SAFE) The wood is not original and I see the hand of some "gunsmith" in the forend attachment method. Although it is nicely done it has excluded the eustachion pin and replaced it with a screw arrangement through the bottom. Both the grip panels and forend are uncheckered and the buttstock does not appear to have been original to the gun, although it is very nicely done and in the correct style the woods match well. The pistol functions fine, fires well, and is very tight and clean, the bore is excellent. The weapon was originally purchased from an east coast pawn shop in 1953 and has been held by the same individual until my aquisition.
Here is what I believe I have. It is my understanding that during the early 1950"s and later in the early 70"s there were several of these units made up from various sources utilizing original parts as much as possible and replacing pieces with other Luger parts available at the time as necessary to build a complete gun??
Thank you everyone for taking the time to read this any information would be greatly appreciated. I am not a Luger collector but I do know this to be a very unusual and potentially expensive piece of Luger history.
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One thing I can relate to you, the two numbers on the front toggle (That's where the 'DWM' is located) are the last two digits of the SerNo. You should have the same two numbers on the rear toggle, where the rear toggle starts to curve downward at the very end of the gun..as well as the smallest of internal parts. If any part shows a different number than the last two digits of the SerNo, it reduces value to the 'Lugerphiles' amongst us.
Now, "GESICHERT", that loosely means 'to shoot'. It doesn't mean safe. The safety lever will be pushed towards the "GESICHERT" in order to fire the gun. I know, I just nit-picked. Now, down to business:
You've explained a firearm, but you didn't pose a direct question to us forum folks. I'll assume you wish for us to check on the originality, and possible value, correct?
No one will make a stab at your firearm without good, in focus pictures of the items you've just described..and you would have saved tons of typing if you used visuals. Photo posting procedure is at the top of this forum. Best, and good luck! Joe
EDIT:
Item in blue above..a correction. Gesichert means 'secure', or safe. My error. Geladen simply means 'loaded', whether the gun is ready to fire, or not. (Ref. post below). Joe0 -
The wild variety of "1920 Commercials" included a number of carbines of various barrel lengths and construction. Could be even older than 1950.
But it is going to take those pictures to give an idea.0 -
The fact that it has a 16 inch barrel leads me to believe that it was specifically built/modified to avoid the National Firearms Act, which has a 16" minimum for rifles. A standard Luger carbine would have a barrel just under 12 inches. The 1920 Commercials had a variety of barrel lengths, but the 16 inch length just screams made for USA compliance to me. 0 -
'GESICHERT' =SAFE= 'GELADEN' = READY TO FIRE = Dieter 0 -
The Luger Carbine Was not made with a 16 inch barrel They had a frame that was different and had the forearm attached to this frame extension. almost remined you of the cross pin Key like on Muzzle-loading long rifles. Most of them were 5 digit serial numbers and they do not have military Proof marks. We would love to see pictures of yours. the 0 -
I believe Mark is on the right track. If yours does not look like the carbine pictured below, you have, well, something less: 
Neal
EDIT: I've only seen them with the wide TG; had to be wide to allow for attaching the fore end iron.0 -
An extremely nice example!! 0 -
VERY nice, neil! did all the carbines have the wide trigger guard? 0
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