colt 1903 army??
I have purchaed a colt 1903 .38 army revolver. The numbers on the frame and crane are four digit and match 19#0. I have checked proofhouse and I believe this gun was made in 1892, the gun is all original and is in exceptional condition. I am new to collecting and I would like to know how much this gun is worth and should I get a colt letter on it?? Thanks for any help..
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The basic serial number is stamped on the bottom of the grip, along with the "U.S. Army and Model date" The numbers on the crane are assembly numbers. It would be best if you could post quality photos of your revolver with close-ups of all markings. 0 -
I told ya I am a newbie.. I checked the number on the bottom of the grip with the proofhouse charts and it was made in 1905.. the number is 2419**. I will get some picts up asap. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by carhauler89
I told ya I am a newbie.. I checked the number on the bottom of the grip with the proofhouse charts and it was made in 1905.. the number is 2419**. I will get some picts up asap.
Here is what the Butt marking on the Colt Model 1903's Army Model looks like.
My understanding though is that the serial number range of the Colt 1903 military revolvers, is much lower then the one you have given, in the range of approximately 210,00-215,000.
In the early 1900's when the Model 1903's were manufactured the Army was engaged in heavy fighting in the P.I. They found these revolvers wanting in stopping power. Purchases of these .38 revolvers were terminated, as they determined that .45 cal handguns was a better man stopper.0 -
If these links work here are picts of my 1903.0
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Guns are like cars; the 3 most important things in determining the value are condition, condition, & condition. Hopefully, you didn't pay a lot for it, because you don't know how to evaluate it. You described it as "exceptional"; I'd call it, at best, "fair". This model originally had a nice blue finish; it now has less than 10% finish remaining, so it's hardly "collectible". You need to buy a copy of S. Fjestad's "Blue Book of Gun Values"; they have photos in the front of each edition with a description of condition, & explain how to evaluate them.
You also did not describe the bore condition; if it's badly pitted, it may not even be a good "shooter". You need to clean it, if needed, & tell us what it looks like.
You also need to check the "lock up" to evaluate mechanical wear & safety. With the gun empty, cock the hammer. Hold the hammer back & pull the trigger. While continuing to hold the trigger back, each the hammer all the way forward with your thumb. If there is a lot of rotation, or the cylinder easily moves forward & backward, that would indicate excessive wear that requires gunsmithing. (Repeat this test for all holes in the cylinder.)
Consider this purchase a learning experience.
Neal0 -
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
Guns are like cars; the 3 most important things
in determining the value are condition, condition,
& condition. Hopefully, you didn't pay a lot for it,
because you don't know how to evaluate it. You described it as "exceptional"; I'd call it, at best, "fair".
I don't know if your evaluation of fair is
correct, for it depends whether one uses grading
standards for modern or antique
firearms. While in the eyes of the law this is a
modern firearm it also has a large appeal
to collectors of antiques. So it does become
a "gray" area sometime between those who buy it
to shoot vs. those who buy it as a collectible. And,
just for the record, "Flaydermans Guide to Antique
American Firearms and Their Values" includes many
post-1898 firearms.
Here is the antique description of fair.
"Some major replaced parts; minor replacement
parts may be required; metal rusted, may be
lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or
reblued; rounded edges of metal and wood; principle
lettering, numerals and design on metal partly
obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or
repaired where broken; in fair working order or
can be easily repaired and placed in working
order."
John0 -
Your Colt is marked with the correct military inspectors initials, of that era.
J.E.H. = Major Jay E. Hoffer
K.S.M. = Kelly S. Morse
The grips have been refinished with what appears to some sort of a plastic coating.
IMHO, it would grade out as being in GOOD condition and be in the $300 to $500 range if it's functional, ( in time, locks up tight ) and has a descent bore with no deep pitting.0 -
The grips have been replaced at some point but they are true rosewood and are just slick from wear. I was also wondering what the 1904 stamp on the frame means. I read that it means that the gun was punched out to shoot .38 specials??? I also read that they only done this on something like 12,000 guns and thats why it has two inspector stamps on it??I would like to thank everyone for their input on the subject.. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
Guns are like cars; the 3 most important things in determining the value are condition, condition, & condition. Hopefully, you didn't pay a lot for it, because you don't know how to evaluate it. You described it as "exceptional"; I'd call it, at best, "fair". This model originally had a nice blue finish; it now has less than 10% finish remaining, so it's hardly "collectible". You need to buy a copy of S. Fjestad's "Blue Book of Gun Values"; they have photos in the front of each edition with a description of condition, & explain how to evaluate them.
You also did not describe the bore condition; if it's badly pitted, it may not even be a good "shooter". You need to clean it, if needed, & tell us what it looks like.
You also need to check the "lock up" to evaluate mechanical wear & safety. With the gun empty, cock the hammer. Hold the hammer back & pull the trigger. While continuing to hold the trigger back, each the hammer all the way forward with your thumb. If there is a lot of rotation, or the cylinder easily moves forward & backward, that would indicate excessive wear that requires gunsmithing. (Repeat this test for all holes in the cylinder.)
Consider this purchase a learning experience.
Neal
When I find a gun thats 105 yrs old and the gun is not all rusted and pitted I consider that exceptional. The cylinder locks up tight in all positions and the bore is shiny bright with no pits. I paid $150.00 bucks for it to keep and I was just wondering what the value was for insurance purposes. I consider every purchase a learning experience. I took it to a local gun dealer for a paper appraisal today and was offered $700.00 for the gun so this is an experience I think I can live with.. Thanks for your negative input though..0 -
quote:
When I find a gun thats 105 yrs old and the gun is not all rusted and pitted I consider that exceptional. The cylinder locks up tight in all positions and the bore is shiny bright with no pits. I paid $150.00 bucks for it to keep and I was just wondering what the value was for insurance purposes. I consider every purchase a learning experience. I took it to a local gun dealer for a paper appraisal today and was offered $700.00 for the gun so this is an experience I think I can live with.. Thanks for your negative input though..
Item in blue above: That's why collection of firearms needs to use a standard. 'Exceptional' (to the collecting collective body) means that it's above and beyond [The Exception] to what is normally encountered.
As you are a self-admitted novice in the collecting field, please take the input of others at face value, and try to weed out any personality nuances. On this Experts forum, we tend to be very cut-and-dry, and brusque in our valuations. Over time, you, hopefully, will realize the worth of our input. People keep on returning to us not due to our brusqueness, but due to the accuracy of our valuations.
And I have to agree with Neal in one important aspect: That you have to divorce yourself from your personal opinion and discipline yourself to the accepted value system.
Firearm to you, is, of course exceptional. That's where it ends. We can't change your personal feelings. However, if you were to convey the true condition to others via text only, personal feelings mean nothing. Fair to good is much more realistic for this firearm, and the discipline to report it accurately comes from experience.
Yes, it was a learning experience for you. Most every time I access this Experts forum, it's a learning experience for me, also.
Good luck in your new, most rewarding hobby! Best, Joe0
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