Energy, Bullet Weight and Killing Power
I am confused. Assuming identical energy is there any difference in "killing power" of a 130 vs. 180 grain bullet (or any different sized bullet)?
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Assuming impact energy is the same, the lighter bullet will be moving faster and open up sooner & more than the heavier one will. OTOH, the heavier one will penatrate deeper.
It comes down to the game your shooting, PD and groundhogs you want rapid expansion, broadside on deer you need fairly expansion, quaterin away on deer and broadside on game like elk you want more penatration, and for big/dangerious game you want maximum penatration.
IOW bullet selection is a tradeoff between expansion and penatration, and you must select the most appropeate one accordenly.0 -
If all other factors are the same ( ammo brand, powder charge, format
of slug --- boat tail, ballistic tip, FMJ round, etc. ) the 180 grain round should penetrate a bit deeper and deliver a little more impact power. Of course, being heavier, it will fly a bit different than the 130 gr. -- probably dropping faster at long distances. It may have a slightly lower velocity than the light bullet because of the additional weight being shoved out by the powder charge. If you sight in with the 180, then switch to the 130, or even go to a different brand of 180, your impact point will not be the same.
I have a decent-quality .223 single shot with a 4x12 scope on it. I sighted in to a point where i was hitting under 3/4 inch groups at around 120 yards. Changed ammo brands-same slug weight but loaded to military specs. Their stuff is always loaded hot to operate the full-auto weapons. The mil-spec ammo shot eight inches higher and 2 inches left on the same target at the same distance.
If you want consistency pick a good brand of ammo that your gun shoots well and then stick with it. For large game you may want the heavier slug, as an example. There are so many factors affecting energy such as barrel temp, outside temp, wind and so on that it is difficult to really pin down factors on a specific bullet from your gun without buying some electronic gear to measure velocities and doing some shooting with it.0 -
quote:Originally posted by famous wolf
I am confused. Assuming identical energy is there any difference in "killing power" of a 130 vs. 180 grain bullet (or any different sized bullet)?
All else being equal, given two bullets with identical kinetic energies, the heavier bullet will have more momentum, and will generally be the more effective (you can read that as "deadly") round, offering better penetration and "knockdown" power.
But in the real world, there is a lot more to what makes a "better" bullet than its pure terminal ballistics (ie what happens when it hits the target).
Given the above example, the heavier bullet will also offer more RECOIL, and that may not be such a good thing. The heavier bullet will also be flying considerably SLOWER, meaning a less flat trajectory, again. . .not a good thing. Heavier bullet may be more expensive.
Lastly, having more penetration and momentum isn't always necessary. Depends on what you are shooting. There is such a thing as "overkill", where the round you are firing is more powerful than it needs to be. So now you are unnecessarily increasing recoil, expensive, and possibly downrange risk from a missed shot.0 -
to say that one has more"killing" power than the other would really be silly...DEAD IS DEAD...to say that one can kill more efficiently would solely be based on the target in question and/or the conditions the bullet may face in flight. there are so many different variables that it could litterally be discussed for hours on end. assuming you referre to hunting deer class animals the decision would be based more on what kind of terrain your hunting. brushy country would lend itself better to the heavier bullets and open country to the lighter ones. there are alot of things to take into serious consideration when deciding what to use out there on the hunt,, and it really boils down to being skilled at shooting in the end. I know guys that just have to take a 300 mag but cant hit a barn if they were standing in it, and I know guys that hunt with 222's with great success. assuming that you can shoot its all a matter of personal preference. given any bullet weight maximum energy transferre is only achieved if the bullet doesnt leave the target. if the bullet blows through the target you just lost all the energy transferre the bullet was capable of delivering to the target hence the term "overkill". really there are so many variables that it is literaly impossible to tell you wich would be better for you without alot more info. either one has been used on big game all round the planet with good results. dont get me wrong I am not saying you should go hunting cape buffalo or kodiak bears with a 222 either! LOL If your one of the guys who has only one rifle and intends to use it for everything you would probably lean towared the lighter bullet weights, find a load that is accurate and stick with it. if you handload you can then chose a bullet weight that offers several different construction styles. for instance I will give you an example using one of my own that I do this with. 6mm remington. I use nosler partition 100gr tips for deer, and sierra 100gr spitzers for coyotes and hogs. both use the same exact loading of powder, and fly the same from my peticular rifle. but they perform very differently. the partition bullets will mushroom nicely on deer and give decent penetration, where the sierra spitzer will expand rapidly, and work better on lighter game. it would be easier to give you direction if I knew the cartridge you were using,the game you intend to shoot,and the terrain in wich you will be hunting. everything can be a factor in deciding what to use...even your own weight. proficiency and comfort go hand in hand. I am a little guy so I tend not to like extreme recoil. I have mags and I hunt with a mag, but if I am going to go try to outshoot another marksman I am taking a more comfortable to shoot rifle. when I am hunting I encounter places where a "comfortable" shooting rifle would never cut the mustard so I carry a magnum for that reason. I would be more than happy to shoot the "bull" with you if you need any information. I have extensive ballistics data for just about every calibre known to man and probably rock throwing data from cave man days to and would be glad to share with you whatever I can. I have been reloading for well over 25yrs now and growing up in a gunshop setting has allowed for alot of literature to pile up on the subject, and for actual hands on testing of lots of different calibres. If I can be of any assistance dont hesitate to chat. best reguards.... 0 -
As posted above, dead is dead. Shot placement is paramount, for any game animals. A 500 WhizBang that misses its mark will not kill any better than a 22 LR.
That said, I took a whitetail buck this year that weighed 164 lbs field dressed. I took it with a 20 grain bullet that left the muzzle at 4000 FPS. It was not a head shot, but severed the spinal column in the deers neck just below the head....Shot placement was the key. The cartridge was 17 Fireball.
As Beantown suggested, it is all dependant on what game you are shooting, the caliber you are using and the construction of the bullet. With a good controlled expansion bullet like the Barnes TSX, you can go with a lighter bullet, as this bullet does not shed weight, and maintains its momentum. If you are going after something that can eat, claw, or stomp you back into the dust of the earth, then use bigger bore and heavier bullet.
There is a lot to it, and there are several threads on here that discuss it if you are willing to do a search.0 -
That is a very good question.
I was a serious hunter down in Georgia in 1982. I had killed dozens of deer, and a few wild hogs, with my 30-06.
I was using Remington CoreLokt 180 grain slugs.
On the lung shot, it was normal for a deer to run 100 yards. I had a few run 130 yards, some with their hearts blown out.
In that thick brush, in the dark, 130 yards is a long way. I got real good at blood tracking.
Then, I bought a TC Hawken. I decided to try what Davy Crockett used, the patched round ball, 50 caliber.
There was no special muzzleloading season in Georgia then.
I figured, if the round ball was no good, I would just go back to the Mauser.
In a few weeks I shot a deer in the lungs with the round ball. A nice 4 pointer, he only ran 40 yards!
I realized, Davy Crockett didn't have it so bad.
I wound up killing 7 deer and 6 wild hogs with the round ball, and none of them made over 50 yards.
The 30-06 has around 2,900 foot pounds of energy.
The .490 round ball has about 1,400 foot pounds of energy.
On paper the 30-06 is better, but in the woods, the round ball has more killing power.
I wound up killing 50 more deer with the 30-06. If I was hunting a logging road, or field, I would take the 30-06. I had no qualms about shooting a deer with that rifle, I just knew it would involve a lot of tracking.
Then, if I was hunting in the thick woods the next day, I took the Hawken.
A lung hit deer averaged a 100 yard run when hit with that 30-06.0 -
It's physics and biology. Which bullet weight has the most "killing power"? Whichever does the most damage to the vital organ(s) of the animal being shot at. Which one gets as much of the available energy as possible translated into tissue damage in the right place(s)? That depends, as mentioned, on the type of animal and other factors.
Dead is dead, but if you're shooting at bears, bad guys, or the like, a mortal wound doesn't mean too much if they still have time to inflict the same on you before theirs takes effect.0 -
To put it another way, consider this- if you take an ice pick and rapidly jab it into your thigh and pull it out, it will leave a small wound that while painful, will probably heal ok assuming proper disinfection and that you didn't hit some major artery. If you take a large knife and slowly push it in.... lot more damage. (Don't try this at home). The energy you use may be the same; but the damage of the larger one is greater.
Why? Well energy and momentum are very important, but so is diameter and meplat (that is essentially the shape of the nose), as well as alloy and construction. There's a reason a lot of buffalo where whacked by slow moving soft lead bullets. Large diameter and a large meplat combined with momentum and energy translate into one dead buffalo.
Why mention this? Well it explains for one why FMJs aren't so good for hunting. A 150 gr FMJ doesn't efficiently transfer energy to an animal while a 150 gr soft point does. However again, the question is, are all things truly equal? We're assuming in your lighter and heavier bullet that expansion is a constant. It isn't. While what has been said is true and a 130 gr bullet (for instance) might not impart its energy to a target as efficently as a 180 might on deer sized game, it WILL do better than a 180 FMJ. And so forth. So bullet design counts for a lot.
Now as bpost would tell you I by no means am an experienced deer hunter. I'm an experienced 'sit freezing and see nothing' hunter but that's about it. But in practice with a deer, any proper bullet will work. What's a proper bullet? Well as someone said for a spine shot a 20 gr bullet will do fine. For most chest shots anything in the 125 gr range and up should do fine as well.0 -
There is a fine artical in the Dec. 2009 issue of the Fir-Fish-Game magizine on this very same subject "Big bore knockout punch" It explains every thing that everyone has said and a formula as to how to arrive at it. 0 -
Try Hornady Index of Terminal Standards (HITS) calculator ...
http://www.hornady.com/hits/calculator0
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