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CMMG 22 Upper

shoots2much
I recently purchased a CMMG detected upper, the unit overall is nice but, once chambered, a un-fired round will not extract manually.
I called CMMMG and talked to support, I was told the unit was designed NOT to extract unfired rounds.
The reason being, CMMG felt the possibility of a slam fire caused by the extractor contacting the cartridge rim on bolt closure was more of a concern than live rounds left in the chamber.
So basically, I was told, it's "normal" and they aren't going to fix it.
It causes me to wonder how so many other .22 designers have managed to overcome this "dilemma" over the past 100 years, since some .22s have duel extractors and do not slam fire.
For approximately $580 I'd like a rifle that functions as advertised,I don't think thats an unreasonable assumption.
A gun that doesn't extract is NOT "normal", I'm extremely disappointed with CMMG's response.


Has anyone else experienced this or similar malfunctions with a CMMG upper, and how did you correct the issue?
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Comments

4 comments

Date Votes
  • Nwcid
    Well if they say that is how is was designed to work then it is NOT a malfunction. It is a function different then you expected which is VERY different then a malfunction.

    I have had a CMMG upper since this spring. I have about 1k of ammo though it. I just went and tired it and you are right, it does not extract an empty round. I have never noticed this with the shooting I have done so for me I guess it is not an issue.

    If you are not happy ask for a refund and send it back, they have great customer service. There are a couple other people out there making dedicated uppers but I am not sure if they function differently or not.
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  • nmyers
    I'd be a little miffed, too, but Nwcid is right. It's a design thing, not a defect. I really don't know if it's possible to have an extractor on this type conversion unit.

    But, slamfire? That would come as news to the hundreds of companies currently making semiauto .22 rimfires with extractors.

    But, it's not without precedent. The little Beretta's with the tip-up barrels do not have extractors; straight blow back is all that is needed to extract fired cases, & you lift the barrel to extract an unfired case.

    Neal
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  • beantownshootah
    This is interesting, and I agree that a gun designed not to extract rounds isn't "malfunctioning".

    Perhaps its a bad design, though that's somewhat of a different thing.

    I'm sure its more than possible to design a .22 AR-15 upper with a working extractor, the question is how much would such a unit cost, what will its reliability and safety be (in comparison to the others), and would such a design be competitive in a marketplace with simpler .22LR designs.

    Would you pay (say) another $50 for an extractor here? Do you think most buyers would?

    For $580 for a dedicated upper, now you're in (actually past) the price range of dedicated AR-15 clone rifles in .22LR like the Smith MP-22.

    You're also in the cost range of AR-15 Ruger 10-22 builds that have excellent positive extraction.
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  • Nwcid
    The CMMG surely has an ejector and an extractor as can be seen in this pic from mine.

    DSC_0004-4.jpg

    There is no good way to take a pic of how the extractor and barrel interface. Here is a pic of how the the round sits in the chamber though.

    DSC_0009-2.jpg

    Now the way the bolt sits against this is flat and so there is not enough rim sticking out past the chamber for the extractor to catch on. I am assuming since this is blow back that once the case starts to move back with the bolt the extractor is no longer blocked by the chamber and can get below the case rim.

    This is quiet different then say how a 10/22 is set up. The barrel/chamber is one solid unit that is the same diameter and is pretty much cut flush. The whole bolt comes into contact with the whole face of the barrel. There is a small notch that is cut out for the extractor to engage. But if you look you will see the whole case is supported in a 10/22 vs just part of the rim in the AR.

    I am not a designer so I can not speak to how or why things were done this way.

    Bean to speak more on the why and upper. For me that is easy, because it is an AR. All the parts cost the same to make so why should the cost be lower just because it is a .22. The upper receiver, FSB, handguards, CH, FH, ect are all real AR parts, it does not matter what caliber they are on. The barrels are still real AR barrels they just happen to be chambered in .22lr vs any of the other calibers. Still has the real cost of making a real AR barrel. Just like my Kimber .22, it IS a Kimber 1911 built like a Kimber 1911, by Kimber, it just happens to be chambered in .22 but it is not cheeper then any other caliber per model.

    If you look at any real quality .22 gun built like a standard firearm you are going to pay for it. How much does a Ruger 77 in .308 cost? how much does a Ruger 77 in .22 cost? I know there are more examples out there but cant think of any at the moment. Then think about all the high end .22 rifles they are not cheep either.

    While the clones are nice and provide a niche they are NOT AR's. They are .22 caliber rifles designed to be as cheep as they can, as easily as they can to look as close to an AR as they can. This is not a bash, just a fact of what they are. They are a good guns but they are NOT AR's.

    I have 2 GSG-5's that are awsome. They are fun and I like them and they are cool BUT they are NOT HK94's (or quality clones). If you were to compare the 2 it would be easy to see the difference in why a GSG is ~$450 and a non HK94 is ~$1200. We will skip the real HK price because that is due to other factors.
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