Can You Identify This Old Rifle?
Please see:
http://watsonsresort.com/images/LittleHunter_enh2_Sepia.jpg
Caution: large image, around 1MB.
This fine old image which dates from the early 1890s portrays the grandfather of a friend of mine.
I'd like very much to identify the Little Hunter's gun. I've spent a couple of hours trying to locate a reference or image, but have come up completely empty-handed.
The image will be featured on a website with historical context, and it would be really great to also identify that gun for readers.
Here's a closeup of the action:
http://watsonsresort.com/images/closeup.png
It looks like a break-open over-and-under; at a guess it's a small-caliber rifle/shotgun. It was certainly made sometime before 1895. The boy pictured is probably under 7 years old, and is known to have been born in 1888.
(Incidentally, the original photo came to me in this condition:
http://watsonsresort.com/images/LittleHunter_orig.jpg
The result of that restoration effort was especially gratifying.)
Thanks in advance to all who take an interest!
http://watsonsresort.com/images/LittleHunter_enh2_Sepia.jpg
Caution: large image, around 1MB.
This fine old image which dates from the early 1890s portrays the grandfather of a friend of mine.
I'd like very much to identify the Little Hunter's gun. I've spent a couple of hours trying to locate a reference or image, but have come up completely empty-handed.
The image will be featured on a website with historical context, and it would be really great to also identify that gun for readers.
Here's a closeup of the action:
http://watsonsresort.com/images/closeup.png
It looks like a break-open over-and-under; at a guess it's a small-caliber rifle/shotgun. It was certainly made sometime before 1895. The boy pictured is probably under 7 years old, and is known to have been born in 1888.
(Incidentally, the original photo came to me in this condition:
http://watsonsresort.com/images/LittleHunter_orig.jpg
The result of that restoration effort was especially gratifying.)
Thanks in advance to all who take an interest!
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Grandpa is holding a Remington No 4 Rolling Block rifle as made from 1890 - 1933 in calibers .22, .25, and .32 rimfire. It was a high grade, high priced rifle as boy's rifles go.
Is it still in the family?
I couldn't find anything as far back as 1895, but in 1908 the No 4 cost $5, same as the Stevens Favorite and more than any other smallbore single shot of the day.0 -
smartoldguy,
From one ol'guy to another, welcone to the GB forums.
The rifle pictured appears to be a Remington-Hepburn side lever rolling block. (IIRC the side lever operated the extractor)
The Remington-Hepburn action guns were first produced about 1883.
Remington was copied & counterfited almost as much as was S&W in the era of this picture. What we are seeing may well be a single shot shotgun built on a copied action.
Jim0 -
I agree with Hawk - the Remington No. 4 was one of the original "boys" rifles. The side lever is a take-down lever to separate the barrel/forestock from the action.
Cool photo!0 -
Hello sorry cussedemgun The Hepburn does have a side lever BUT that is not what is in the picture the picture is a take-down rolling block The Hepburn would have been taller then the boy and been much too heavy for him to get to his shoulder and hold on target and shoot. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hawk Carse
Grandpa is holding a Remington No 4 Rolling Block rifle as made from 1890 - 1933 in calibers .22, .25, and .32 rimfire. It was a high grade, high priced rifle as boy's rifles go.
Ah, wonderful! Thanks millions. Knowing its make/model, I find it easy now to locate more info and images.
quote:Is it still in the family?
I've just asked that question. Great-grandson says he's near 100% certain it is. I've perused his living-room gun display case, didn't see it there; but apparently they have quite a few more stored away. On my next visit I'll try to get a look at it.
Again, thanks. I knew I came to the right place.0 -
quote:Originally posted by cussedemgun
smartoldguy,
From one ol'guy to another, welcone to the GB forums.
Thanks! This is obviously a fine community, and a Resource with a capital R. I feel welcome indeed.
quote:The rifle pictured appears to be a Remington-Hepburn side lever rolling block. (IIRC the side lever operated the extractor)
The Remington-Hepburn action guns were first produced about 1883.
I think Hawk had it just right, actually. Every image I have found for the #4 Remington rolling block has been a match for the pictured item.
quote:Remington was copied & counterfited almost as much as was S&W in the era of this picture. What we are seeing may well be a single shot shotgun built on a copied action.
Jim
Possibly so. The great-grandson tells me he's pretty sure it was a .22. If it wasn't lost in a house fire in the 1930's then I'll probably get a look at that very same rifle within a few days.
The design certainly was copied a lot. I found all sorts of variations in a few minutes of Googling.
I mis-read the lines of the hexagonal barrel, and that along with the double tangs that give the impression of two hammers, thought it was an over-and-under. But clearer images convince me that was an error.
I've not yet seen one of these close up. I'm guessing the upper tang opens the chamber (for insertion of a single round?) -- and the lower is the actual hammer. I'd guess the "safety" is simply a matter of having the hammer lowered.
Every reference I find says the forward lever, where it exists, releases the barrel.0 -
We don't do hexagonal barrels, it is octagonal.
The Rolling Block action is operated by cocking the hammer and then pulling back the breechblock. They pivot on the two large pins visible in the receiver sides. Insert a cartridge, close breechblock, fire. (Or lower the hammer to the safety notch.) As the hammer falls, its breast comes in behind and under the rear of the breechblock and locks it shut.
Recock the hammer, pull back the breechblock to extract the empty case, repeat.0 -
Hi All !!!
All good information but we may not be looking at a RRB #4 !!!
Having owned many over the years, none of them had such a large release lever in that long action.. We may need to consider that it may be an H & R or even a H & A take-down..
Need to hold it in our hand's !!!
Ed..0 -
I'm with Redwing on this one, that's not a .22cal Remington #4 Takedown. Hammer is spurred, takedown lever is too big, no lever stop pin, Receiver is too long, and the breechblock pin is too far away from the takedown lever.
His receiver:
Close up of a Rem #4:
My Rem #4 on the bottom:0 -
quote:Originally posted by TRAP55
I'm with Redwing on this one, that's not a .22cal Remington #4 Takedown. Hammer is spurred, takedown lever is too big, no lever stop pin, Receiver is too long, and the breechblock pin is too far away from the takedown lever.
Remember the photo was restored (look at his "before" pic!) and may have lost detail and been distorted in the process. It's too fuzzy to see if the stop pin's there, and the lever will cam farther down with wear as in your last photo.0
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