Winchester 1885 Low Wall - 22 Long
Hi All,
Acquired a nice shooter today. Went to visit my uncle who has been a shooter/loader/collector his entire life. I had in tow my son and a couple guns that belonged to his father, my grandfather, that he had passed along to me. Wanted to show him my handy work in getting them back in shape and ready to shoot. Primarily a Winchester 1890 that I just got done.
Anyway afterward he strolled back into the house and brought back this piece and promptly told me to take it home and keep it. He's getting a few years on him now and wanting to pass along some of his favorite pieces to those that appreciate them.
I've already searched the site for answers to a couple questions but nothing has popped up.
Story is that he bought the gun in the condition it is about 35 years ago. It' obviously been re-blued and the wood re-done. He sent the barrel off and had it re-lined. Shot it some and its sat in the corner of this room or that for the 30 years since. At one point he found a serious rust spot on the one side of the reciever and sanded it down to stop it. Blamed it on his wife cleaning and getting some type of household cleaner on it.
First question. I can't find any serial number on it. Nothing on the bottom tang except Pat. Oct 7 (something) 79. No marking on top tang of reciever. He said it was an original early low wall. I'm curious if I can date it somehow.
What would you guys recommend doing about the blue on the side of the reciever? Collectors value has obviously shot with everything done to it. I'd kinda like to fix it. What's its estimated worth in current condition?
Sorry for the long post and TIA for any info.
Acquired a nice shooter today. Went to visit my uncle who has been a shooter/loader/collector his entire life. I had in tow my son and a couple guns that belonged to his father, my grandfather, that he had passed along to me. Wanted to show him my handy work in getting them back in shape and ready to shoot. Primarily a Winchester 1890 that I just got done.
Anyway afterward he strolled back into the house and brought back this piece and promptly told me to take it home and keep it. He's getting a few years on him now and wanting to pass along some of his favorite pieces to those that appreciate them.
I've already searched the site for answers to a couple questions but nothing has popped up.
Story is that he bought the gun in the condition it is about 35 years ago. It' obviously been re-blued and the wood re-done. He sent the barrel off and had it re-lined. Shot it some and its sat in the corner of this room or that for the 30 years since. At one point he found a serious rust spot on the one side of the reciever and sanded it down to stop it. Blamed it on his wife cleaning and getting some type of household cleaner on it.
First question. I can't find any serial number on it. Nothing on the bottom tang except Pat. Oct 7 (something) 79. No marking on top tang of reciever. He said it was an original early low wall. I'm curious if I can date it somehow.
What would you guys recommend doing about the blue on the side of the reciever? Collectors value has obviously shot with everything done to it. I'd kinda like to fix it. What's its estimated worth in current condition?
Sorry for the long post and TIA for any info.
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Hello,
Wincheser stamped the serial number on the lower tang only (between the two screws). If you can not see the serial number, then there is no possible way to determine exactly when it was made. That said, it is not an "early" production Model 1885 low-wall, as it has the flat-sided frame. Winchester first began making the flat-sided receiver frames in late 1887 (circa serial number 17,000), and used them up until 1918. The address stamp on the barrel tells me that it was made sometime in the 1887 - 1905 timeframe.
Because of the reblue & refinish, the relined barrel, and the lack of a serial number, your old low-wall is not worth very much relativerly speaking (maybe $300 - $400). It is not going to hurt it in the least to have the receiver frame reblued again.0 -
Bert, Thank you kindly for the reply.
Since posting this I've read every thread that will come up in the search on an 1885. I think you reply in every one of them. [8D] From those I was able to determine pretty much everything you've stated with the exception of the value. You are a true asset to the site.
I'm going to re-blue the receiver, buy up a bunch of 22 long ammo and shoot the hell out of it. [:D] It's like 15F here now and my son is wanting to go shoot it tomorrow. I can see why you are so fond of these little rifles. I already love this one.0 -
You are quite welcome, and thank you for the compliment[:)].
I can think of no better .22 caliber rifle to start a young lad's shooting career. If you have a hard time locating 22 Long ammo, you can shoot 22 Short ammo just as easily. Just be sure to clean the chamber real good after each shooting session.0 -
If the barrel has been relined it my have a twist fast enough to shoot the 22 lr round. I would check that out. 0 -
Hey thanks for the idea. I didn't know the original twist in the barrel was to slow for a 22lr. Hopefully you're right. I've spoken to my uncle a time or two since getting it home and he remembered he'd asked the gunsmith that worked it to massage the chamber/throat to shoot 22lr. I've slipped a 22lr in and it chambers easily so I'd planned to try them. If it shoots them badly and shoots the lighter long bullet better guess I could blame it on the twist. 0 -
The twist rate for an original Winchester 22 Short or 22 Long was 1:20, whereas it was 1:16 for a 22 Long Rifle. The slower 1:20 twist rate is not fast enough to properly stabilize the heavier 40-grain 22 LR bullet, and as such, accuracy suffers. 0 -
So in another post I read where the collectors value of .32 Rimfire Lo-Walls was fairly low. I have dreamed for quite a while of converting mine to a center-fire cartridge.
How,who what about converting the breech block? I'm not finding anything on the internet.
Thank you.0 -
In order to convert it to a useful centerfire cartridge, you will need the following;
1. centerfire breech block
2. centerfire firing pin
3. the correct extractor for the cartridge (my suggestion would be a 32 W.C.F. (a.k.a. 32-30)
Additionally, you will need to have the chamber reamed or buy a new barrel (which is what I recommend).
Converting it will not an inexpensive undertaking. Frankly, you would be better off selling it, and then buying a different (centerfire) rifle.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
Converting it will not an inexpensive undertaking. Frankly, you would be better off selling it, and then buying a different (centerfire) rifle.
Yeah but... It's such a nice feeling rifle. With the new barrel,breech block etc. would the action handle pressure from say a .257 Roberts. or possibly .25/35? Thanks for the sensible reply.
Are centerfire breech blocks relatively available?
Is it appropriate for you to suggest a rifle smith on this forum?
Jeff0 -
Hello Jeff,
No, it definitely would not be safe converting it to a .257 Roberts, or a 25-35 W.C.F.! The low-wall action is not nearly stout enough for either of those cartridges. It was designed for rimfire cartridges and pistol sixed cartridges only (32 W.C.F., 38 W.C.F., and 44 W.C.F.). It can also handle either of the 25-20 cartridges.
If you are looking for original parts, then No, they are not readily available.
Any gunsmith worth his salt can convert a Model 1885... it just takes having all the right parts.0
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