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Smokeless powder in Black Powder revolvers

capgun
On another site some experienced BP percussion shooters talk of shooting light target/plinking loads of unique in their repro percussion Colts. Loads that develop far less preesure than black powder loads. I know, never use anything but BP in BP guns. But is it really unsafe in very light loads, or do manufacturers just figure there are too many ignorant people who would use the wrong powder or too much powder. The pressure curve actually favors smokeless, as it does not peak as quickly in the cylinder. I know inexperienced people would be blowing up guns by filling up the chamber with smokeless powder, so it is just easier to say do not use it. I have never seen or heard of a test where smokeless was tested in a BP revolver. Maybe they are afraid a test would show that in light loads it is safe.
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Comments

14 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    There are just to many folks out there who are use to loading BP firearms by volume. Trying to get them to understand that smokeless has to be loaded by grain measure in much smaller amounts then BP would be a daunting task.
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  • charliemeyer007
    Three Finger Jack says stick to the real black powder.

    You might look into them fake black powders. So I'm think that if nothing else around to shoot I might look into smokeless loads but. I know people that shot 9mm Sten Gun ammo out of 30 mauser broomhandle and 45acp in their 30-06, possable but not reccomended.
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  • capgun
    Around 1900 shooters reloaded their cartridges with black powder. The ammunition companies told reloaders at that time it was unsafe to reload with smokeless powder. They were afraid reloaders would load up the cartridges and chambers like with black powder. That did not make it unsafe to reload with smokeless powder, it just took a while for people to figure out how to do it safely.
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  • USN_Airdale
    DO NOT EVER LOAD ANY B.P. REVOLVER WITH SMOKELESS POWDER.., UNLESS YOU WANT A KA-BOOM DESTROYING A FINE PIECE AND POSSIBLY LOSING YOUR LIFE !!
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  • fastcarsgofast
    You'll shoot your eye out.
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  • cpermd
    I will disagree.
    I have done it and still do it.

    CP
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  • XXCross
    I for one would sure like to know where these guys got the idea that smokeless loads produce pressures less than those produced by black powder. Which powder and how much? And just what methods were used to make those determinations?
    This sounds like a whole lot of BS to me.
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  • bambambam
    It's not work the risk to lose a limb or your life.

    Just use what the gun was made for and be safe. IMHO
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  • cpermd
    Ever heard of IMR Trail Boss?

    CP
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  • capgun
    Black powder revolvers would just be more fun to shoot when I am out in the desert hiking if I used a light charge of smokeless. Not all the mess. Its easy to say do not do it, but that does not answer the question about it being perfectly safe. I am surprised no one has tested and reported on this practice.
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  • v35
    Take a look at those skimpy and few nipple threads and consider they are keeping the nipple out of your eyeball.I believe they'll let go before any modern steel cylinder wall.
    Figure 15 or 20 KPSI for pressure acting on a 1/4" diameter nipple end.
    That's about a 200 pound impact on the nipple. Usually you double stress for shock so figure 400 pounds stress on those few fine threads.
    I don't like it.
    The idea has appealed to me of reducing force acting on a nipple by pressing a steel disc 1/8-5/32 or more thick having a #60 hole drilled
    in the center, into each chamber. I'd use pieces of grade 8 bolts for the bushings.
    Each chamber needs to be bored square and flat so each nipple base bears on the pressed in bushings.
    I would then feel more secure about LIGHT smokeless target loads.
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  • capgun
    The loads I am talking about produce LESS pressure than black powder loads. So less stress on the nipple. Plinking/target loads at aprout 600-650 fps.
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  • beantownshootah
    quote:Originally posted by capgun
    On another site some experienced BP percussion shooters talk of shooting light target/plinking loads of unique in their repro percussion Colts. Loads that develop far less preesure than black powder loads. I know, never use anything but BP in BP guns. But is it really unsafe in very light loads, or do manufacturers just figure there are too many ignorant people who would use the wrong powder or too much powder. The pressure curve actually favors smokeless, as it does not peak as quickly in the cylinder. I know inexperienced people would be blowing up guns by filling up the chamber with smokeless powder, so it is just easier to say do not use it. I have never seen or heard of a test where smokeless was tested in a BP revolver. Maybe they are afraid a test would show that in light loads it is safe.


    Paraphrase "Is it safe to use smokeless powder in black powder guns"?

    Going to first principles, it certainly ought to be **IF** (and only if) you carefully stick to smokeless powder loads that do not exceed maximum safe pressure limits of the guns in question.

    If you're using really light loads, I would think this should be safe.

    Obviously if you fill up an old black powder gun with modern high pressure smokeless powder, you're likely to cause it to explode like a hand grenade. Not smart. As mentioned, you have to actually WEIGH smokeless powder loads. You can't just use your old dipper to measure smokeless powder, or (worse!) pour in as much powder as the case/cylinder can hold and assume this is going to be safe.

    Another problem in practice is that really light smokeless loads can have their own safety issues. For one thing, incomplete filling of cases/chambers can cause powder to shift inside the chamber causing erratic ignition, leading to hang-fires, or just poor accuracy.

    That is one reason why old-school target shooters used to point their gun barrels upwards then rock the guns downwards before shooting. . .this helps evenly settle the powder towards the primer with every shot.

    There is another potential issue where really low loads can effectively "detonate" instead of burning, potentially causing dangerous pressure spikes.

    IMR's "trail boss" powder was specifically designed as a light fluffy powder specifically to address these issues, and it works great for the specific application of light loads.
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  • v35
    Since pistol caps have less brisiance than primers, I'd expect a few grains of fine black powder under the smokeless would give reliable ignition. The charge would then be lightly compacted but not compressed.
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