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Mannlicher Schoenauer Redfield Scope Mount ????

Kenneth Stuart
I see Redfield two piece Mannlicher Schoenauer scope mounts for sale and on auctions but I always wondered what MS models they were designed to fit.

So here's my question. For the Mannlicher Schoenauer carbines/rifles from the Model 1903 through to the MCA, did Redfield only manufacture one set of mounts for all these MS models?

I looked in my oldest Shooters Bible 1952 but didn't find any information. My other SB's are 1983 or later; and they didn't contain any information either. The SB's from the early 1960's probably have the Redfield scope mount information I'm looking for.
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Comments

9 comments

Date Votes
  • Herschel
    The 1963 through 1973 Gun Digests showed the M-S being tapped for Styer mounts. These would have been with two holes on the left side of the split bridge and two on the receiver ring. I believe, but am not sure, the earlier ones were for metric screws. Later ones used standard American screws but am not certain of the size or pitch. I believe the Model of 1950 and earlier models take the Redfield two piece mounts but would have to be drilled and tapped.
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  • Ambrose
    I have a small collection of Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles and carbines and, judging from them, Herschel is essentially correct. And I believe the answer to your question is yes, Redfield made only the one set of bases for these rifles. They were furnished with an extra pair of screws that were metric for the d&t bridge of earlier models. My model 1908 is not, of course, d&t'd. My model 1950 (made in 1952) has a Leupold Adjust-Mount that attaches with two screws in the receiver ring and two in the left receiver rail--there are no holes in the bridge. My model 1952 (made in 1953) has a Pachmayr "lo-swing" side mount and no holes in the receiver ring or the bridge. Incidently, Mannlicher Schoenauer equiped the "improved 1950 model" and later with what they called a "dummy sideplate" to make it easier to attach a side mount. My model 1956 (made in 1957) has a Williams side mount and is d&t'd in the bridge but not in the receiver ring. I have three MCA's and all are d&t'd in both receiver ring and bridge--one has the Redfield you asked about, one has a Griffin & Howe side mount, and one has a Williams side mount. Also in my collection is a Bausch & Lomb base that mounts similarly to the Leupold with two screws in the receiver ring and two in the side rail. There is an outfit making a repro of the Redfield base that sells for $200+. I am sure that there were other outfits making scope mounts for the Mannlicher Schounauer back in the day but it appears that until the model MCA only rudimentary provisions were made at the factory for scope mounting. I know this is more info than you asked for but I hope I've helped.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention: In the later models, the screws were standard 6-48.
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  • Kenneth Stuart
    Thank You for all the information.

    I did find some information in a Chuck Hawks article which confirms what has already been mentioned in that the MCA was factory drilled and tapped (the top of the receiver ring and the side of the left bridge flat) for the Redfield MS-SR mounts.

    If there is only one Redfield mount for all the Mannlicher Schoenauer models, do all the MS models have the same receiver ring size? You wouldn't think so since the earlier models before the 1924 looked smaller compared to the 1924 and later MS models.

    Thanks Again

    Kenneth
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  • Herschel
    I once owned a M-S rifle that was chambered for the .338 Win Mag. As I recall it was a larger action overall and I believe the receiver ring was also larger than the MCA in smaller calibers.
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  • Ambrose
    In response to your last post, I measured the receiver ring diameters of the model 1908 and an MCA and they are the same. I also researched my old Shooter's Bibles. I found an article by a gun writer in the 1961 issue on the magnum model of the Mannlicher Schoenauer. While he did not state directly, he suggested that the magnum was the same size action (he used the phrase "outwardly similiar"). They had modified the bolt guide rib and the right receiver bridge wall to add a third bearing lug for the magnum action. The magnum was available chambered for 6.5x68, 8x68S, .257 Weatherby, .264, .338, and .458 Winchester Magnum.

    I also found some information on the Redfield mount that states before mid 1965 the MS was d&t'd for metric screws in the bridge but not d&t'd in the receiver ring. After that, both receiver ring and bridge were d&t'd 6-48 so I dug out my 1963 MCA and, indeed, there are no holes in the receiver ring so only two of my MCA's are d&t'd in both receiver ring and bridge.

    At one time Redfield made mounts for about everything so if there were differences in the MS actions, Redfield would probably have made different bases. That suggests to me that Redfield bases will fit any MS action; I know they would fit any of mine if I would drill the necessary holes.

    EDIT: Herschel; I checked the magazine of a .30/06 as you requested. As you may know, the magazines of these rifles are cartridge specific and are stamped re what cartridge they will accept. The .30/06 spool is even different from the .270. It appears that there is room for a magnum case if half of the additional diameter was milled off the spool and the other half off the magazine frame. It's interesting to note that a portion of the magazine box consists of the interior walls of the wood stock! Do you recall what the magazine capacity of your .338 was? The only magnum MS I ever saw was a .458 several years ago. It had a decent scope (a Redfield, I believe) and the price was fair for the time at $1,000 IIRC but I couldn't imagine that I'd ever shoot it so I passed. I'm sorry now, of course.
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  • Kenneth Stuart
    Ambrose and Herschel

    Great information.

    I've always liked the MCA's because the ones I've seen came factory drilled and tapped for the Redfield bases. So mounting a scope was no problem and the MCA carbines & rifles could be easily returned to their original factory condition. The one MS MC model carbine I have was only factory d&t'd on the top of the receiver ring; and it will stay that way.

    Kenneth
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  • RCrosby
    My 1903 rifle, .270, was the smoothest, most beautifully crafted rifle I've ever owned, bar none. I sold it when a pierced primer sent hot gases straight back onto my shooting glasses.
    Just sayin.[:D]
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  • Herschel
    RCrosby, Your comment about about the pierced primer reminds me of an experience I had. I had a pierced primer on an MCA Rifle in .270 Win. Cal. In all my shooting experience over a 60 year period I have only experienced that one pierced primer. It didn't damage the action or blow anything back into my face but did push against the firing pin with enough force to re-cock it.

    Ambrose, I sold the M-S .338 magnum years ago so can't be sure but as I remember it the receiver was wider to allow space for a rotary magazine large enough to handle the .338 Magnum. I don't know what the writer meant by outwardly similar. It certainly looked like the regular MCA action. Would mind removing the rotary magazine from one of your rifles and take a magnum case and see if it looks like it could be made to handle the magnum cases without enlarging the area where the rotary magazine fits.

    Ambrose, I don't recall how many cartridges the magazine held. I never shot the rifle. It came with a set of Styer quick detachable scope mounts. The front ring was designed to fit around the objective lens bell of the scope. It was large, I think probably 50mm. I never found a scope that would fit the rings. That is too bad as the qd rings were very well made.
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  • v35
    Note unlike Mausers and Springfields and other high powered rifles, bolt heads and receiver rings of MS rifles are not safety drilled for gas relief in the event of perforated primers or case failures.
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