Colt Lord & Lady Derringers
I have a excellent condition set of Colt Lord & Lady 22 Caliber Derringers with consecutive serial numbers ending in DER. What info I can come up with is the Lord & Lady are supposed to be firing models with the Fourth Model being non-firing. Trouble is I can't get these open. Any input would be appreciated. They are in a very nice wooden case.
Thanks.[:)]
Thanks.[:)]
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On the frame in front of the trigger there should be a button. Push it and twist the barrel to open.
Lance0 -
Sorry, but there is no button.
Thanks.0 -
Colt (made by Butler) did offer some "display model" derringers that were welded shut so they weren't operable. They were used for gifts. Maybe you have a set of those. 0 -
The Lord & Lady are variations of the Colt 4th Model derringer; all are firing .22 short models. Colt never sold non-firing 4th Model derringers.
Colt contracted the manufacture of this model to Butler, who also made several variations with their own name on the gun. Some of these models were firing .22 short models, some were black powder, & some were non-guns (lacking a recoil plate which could be purchased separately from another company).
To open your guns, you must first pull the hammer back to the first notch. You can then rotate the muzzle laterally to your left.
Neal
EDIT: The barrel rotates to the side, not down. Put your left thumb on the left side of the breech, your right fingers on the right side of the barrel, & twist.
Handle these guns as little as possible, that is not gold plate, it is gold wash; a few rubs with a soft cloth, & the finish is gone.0 -
The barrel will wiggle on both guns and I am sure it is not welded. I have tried the half cock and everything else. I read where the back of the barrel was solid on the non-firing models but this one is open for a 22 short. I can see the hammer move when I shine a light down the barrel. Got me bumfuzzled !
Really appreciate the replies.0 -
nmmyers is correct. Pull hammer back to first notch and twist.[:I] I was thinking of the Sharps pepperbox. 0 -
Twist means rotate barrel to the rt side while at half cock.
I believe there's a screw underneath,holding the barrel in the frame.
Unscrew it and lift the barrel up.0 -
Colt did produce non-firing models of their Number 4 Derringer. Mine was mounted on a plaque with a Mississippi river boat gambling theme. The live firing models have a very small curved indentation on the rear of the barrel, beneath the chamber, that a spring loaded bolt, mounted in the rear of the frame, enters to prevent the barrel from moving when the derringer is in the closed position. Twisting the barrel to the right with the hammer in the half-cock notch, using hand pressure, forces the spring loaded bolt out of the barrel's indentation, allowing for loading. On the non-firing models, the indentation on the rear of the barrel is drilled deeply, without any curvature, so when the barrel is rotatated, at the factory, to the closed position, it becomes permanent, the bolt having entered deeply into the hole. There is no way to retract the bolt to open the barrel. These non-firing Colt derringers have no serial number and will have a hole on the side of the frame for mounting to the plaque. I have owned two of these non-firing Colt derringers. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Stack
Colt did produce non-firing models of their Number 4 Derringer. Mine was mounted on a plaque with a Mississippi river boat gambling theme. The live firing models have a very small curved indentation on the rear of the barrel, beneath the chamber, that a spring loaded bolt, mounted in the rear of the frame, enters to prevent the barrel from moving when the derringer is in the closed position. Twisting the barrel to the right with the hammer in the half-cock notch, using hand pressure, forces the spring loaded bolt out of the barrel's indentation, allowing for loading. On the non-firing models, the indentation on the rear of the barrel is drilled deeply, without any curvature, so when the barrel is rotatated, at the factory, to the closed position, it becomes permanent, the bolt having entered deeply into the hole. There is no way to retract the bolt to open the barrel. These non-firing Colt derringers have no serial number and will have a hole on the side of the frame for mounting to the plaque. I have owned two of these non-firing Colt derringers.
Thanks for the confirmation. I once had a set of those, too.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HOWBECK
I have a excellent condition set of Colt Lord & Lady 22 Caliber Derringers with consecutive serial numbers ending in DER. What info I can come up with is the Lord & Lady are supposed to be firing models with the Fourth Model being non-firing. Trouble is I can't get these open. Any input would be appreciated. They are in a very nice wooden case.
Thanks.
You state your Colt Number 4 derringers have serial numbers suffixed with DER, therefore they are firing derringers as the non-firing models lack a serial number. Colt derringers with DER suffixed serial numbers, production begining in 1970, are known as either the Lord or Lady derringer, the difference being the Lord derringer having a blued barrel and the Lady derringer having a gold plated barrel. Earlier 1959-1963 production of the Colt derringer was cataloged as the Fourth Model derringer and had serial number suffixes of D or N. Various finishes, for this model, were available. It should be noted that the frame and barrel, of either model, were made of pot metal. The rifled bore was integral with the pot metal barrel, no steel liner. Constant shooting will result in a smoothbore barrel. These derringer were intended more for collecting rather than for shooting.0 -
I really appreciate all the folks trying to help. Trouble is I have tried everything but they just will not open. Like I said the serial numbers are consecutive 4XXX7DER 4XXX8DER. They must be the non-firing models is all I can figure.
Thanks again.0 -
quote:Originally posted by HOWBECK
I really appreciate all the folks trying to help. Trouble is I have tried everything but they just will not open. Like I said the serial numbers are consecutive 4XXX7DER 4XXX8DER. They must be the non-firing models is all I can figure.
Thanks again.
Have you tried slightly loosening the bolt that the barrel pivots on? Perhaps the bolt is too tight, preventing any barrel movement. Then with the hammer on half-cock, try pivoting pivoting the rear of the barrel to the left. It will not pivot in the opposite direction. If that doesn't work, try the above with the hammer on full cock. Perhaps the hammer's firing pin is interferring with barrel movement as it would normally do in the fired position. It is the only option available. Removing the bolt doesn't allow barrel removal because of the barrel stud the bolt screws into and the lip on the bottom rear of the barrel that mates with a corresplonding slot on the frame, preventing barrel removal with the bolt removed.0 -
I took the large bolt completely out, tried it with the hammer on full and half cock and everything else. There is movement with the barrel but it will not pivot.
Thanks.0 -
It appears they are non-firing derringers, but it is surprising because they have serial numbers. You can leave them as non-firing, but if you want to have shooters, you would first have to find replacement barrels and then carefully remove the existing barrels using a hacksaw from the top of the barrel where the bolt screws in. I believe that before the hacksaw touches the frame, the barrel will be weak enough to separate into two pieces. Make sure you have the replacement barrels before you start sawing, the barrels are hard to come by. 0 -
H.O.Caudle,
...if you have a real gun, then "twist" means twist the barrel, like these:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=261087638
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=259673475
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260399817
Perhaps, your guns are put together from pieces of the two kinds that were offered, hence the serial numbers on non-firing guns.0 -
Sounds like they would make a good Giveaway for Christmas? Don't worry, i'll fix it when i get them! 0 -
I would like to say thanks to everyone ! Well aware how they are supposed to open. I'll leave them as is because the Blue Book list them at the same value as firing ones. Just put them up for sale.
Thanks again, Howard0
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