Yet another Kali C&R handgun question....
All right Kidz, I need a bit of help on this one, so that I can arm myself (metaphorically speaking) when I go to my LGS next Friday. Hopefully I can explain this situation simply and accurately;
1). I just bought a 1970 P64 pistol from Gunbroker the other night. The private party seller lives just down the road from me in Kalifornia, and has an absolute stellar record & rating on the auction site. Both of us have 003 C&R Licenses.
2). According to all my research, these Polish made P64's attained Federal C & R status sometime back in June of 2010, even though they are less than 50 years old.
3). My LGS was questioning me yesterday about the PPT that we have set up for this Friday (they are obviously an 001 FFL Dealer). His concern is that even though the Feds now say that the P64 is an official C & R handgun, California does not/will not agree, and therefore feels that what I am trying to do is illegal.
4). So I poked around some more and a member on another forum posted this for me (after I asked this question);
quote:
Originally Posted by El Mariachi
Well crap, it looks like I may have screwed myself, 'cuz despite the fact that it's now a BAFTE approved C&R gun, AND the gun is currently in this state.....it's not on the California roster. Any (legal) ideas guys?.....
C&R handguns are exempt from the CA DOJ approved list for handgun sales.
CA Penal Code 12125
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(3) Firearms listed as curios or relics, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
CA Penal Code 12132
This chapter shall not apply to any of the following:
(g) The sale, loan, or transfer of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person listed as a curio or relic, as defined in Section 178.11 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
__________________
5). So if I'm reading this correctly, this private party/face-2-face transfer at the LGS is completely legal in the eyes of Cali's DOJ, yes? (I do realize that this will still incur a 10 day waiting period, but I don't care about that). But is/are there anymore statutes or Penal Code stuff that I should be aware of, so that I can print them out and bring with me to the LGS to help bolster my case?
6). The big reason I'm going thru with this is because I will not only save on the cost of shipping the gun to any LGS's, but will save about a hundred bucks. 'Cuz a PPT at this store is only $35.00, whereas if the gun is shipped there and THEN I go in and do the transfer, they charge some ungodly fee....like $125.00. Big difference of course.
7). Does any of this make sense to you Experts here? I sure hope so.
Thanx in advance,
El
1). I just bought a 1970 P64 pistol from Gunbroker the other night. The private party seller lives just down the road from me in Kalifornia, and has an absolute stellar record & rating on the auction site. Both of us have 003 C&R Licenses.
2). According to all my research, these Polish made P64's attained Federal C & R status sometime back in June of 2010, even though they are less than 50 years old.
3). My LGS was questioning me yesterday about the PPT that we have set up for this Friday (they are obviously an 001 FFL Dealer). His concern is that even though the Feds now say that the P64 is an official C & R handgun, California does not/will not agree, and therefore feels that what I am trying to do is illegal.
4). So I poked around some more and a member on another forum posted this for me (after I asked this question);
quote:
Originally Posted by El Mariachi
Well crap, it looks like I may have screwed myself, 'cuz despite the fact that it's now a BAFTE approved C&R gun, AND the gun is currently in this state.....it's not on the California roster. Any (legal) ideas guys?.....
C&R handguns are exempt from the CA DOJ approved list for handgun sales.
CA Penal Code 12125
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(3) Firearms listed as curios or relics, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
CA Penal Code 12132
This chapter shall not apply to any of the following:
(g) The sale, loan, or transfer of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person listed as a curio or relic, as defined in Section 178.11 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
__________________
5). So if I'm reading this correctly, this private party/face-2-face transfer at the LGS is completely legal in the eyes of Cali's DOJ, yes? (I do realize that this will still incur a 10 day waiting period, but I don't care about that). But is/are there anymore statutes or Penal Code stuff that I should be aware of, so that I can print them out and bring with me to the LGS to help bolster my case?
6). The big reason I'm going thru with this is because I will not only save on the cost of shipping the gun to any LGS's, but will save about a hundred bucks. 'Cuz a PPT at this store is only $35.00, whereas if the gun is shipped there and THEN I go in and do the transfer, they charge some ungodly fee....like $125.00. Big difference of course.
7). Does any of this make sense to you Experts here? I sure hope so.
Thanx in advance,
El
0
-
Well fwiw, this is what I eventually e-mailed to the manager of the LGS in question this afternoon. Should find out later tonite or tomorrow if they're willing to play or not----but I think I got it all covered. Hopefully [:D];
Good morning, Mr. X, El Mariachi here (2 gun customer). I'm planning to do a Private Party transfer at the Stockade store this coming Friday and I wanted to send you some info concerning the legalities of what we will be doing there. Mostly to cover both of our butts, but also to clue in the salesman I talked to over there yesterday....who basically said I was full of crap and trying to do something illegal. Nice. Anyways, here's what we're doing;
I bought a 1970 Polish Radon P64 off of Gunbroker the other night. The seller lives down the street from you and has an 003 C&R License.....and so do I. The BAFTE placed these pistols on their qualified C & R list back in June of 2010, despite the fact that they were made in the 1970's. This is not the real issue though. The issue is that one of your salesman tried to tell me that there is no such thing as a California legal C & R handgun that is NOT at least 50 years old. This is simply not true, as my research has shown. And listed below are two separate Statutes from the California DOJ Department that prove that:
C&R handguns are exempt from the CA DOJ approved list for handgun sales.
CA Penal Code 12125
(a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(3) Firearms listed as curios or relics, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
CA Penal Code 12132
This chapter shall not apply to any of the following:
(g) The sale, loan, or transfer of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person listed as a curio or relic, as defined in Section 178.11 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
And here's the link from the BAFT that shows that the P64's are now classified as C & R's:
(just scroll down a bit to Section II----it's the fourth gun down on the list)
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/update-january-2009-june-2010.html
Anyways, I'd greatly appreciate your time if you went through this and let either of the two salesmen at the other store know that what we are doing is completely legit. Like you, I hate paperwork and legalese, but I just want to have everything ready for Friday morning so that this transfer can go thru smoothly and with no glitches. The seller is really doing me a huge favor by taking time off at work and meeting me there, so I don't want to waste their time. Additionally, I think this info will also be beneficial to both your stores and your employees, for it will clear some (more) California confusion.
Thanks for your attention to this matter. If you would like to call me with any questions, please feel free to do so----I can be reached @ 310-XXX-XXXX from 7-to-7.
Best regards,
El M0 -
Its perfectly legal to do a PPT. The C&R list is federal not Calif. A PPT is exempt from the approved list so your good to go. It will have to be done thru an 01 FFL. 0 -
So long as the firearms involved are not so called assault weapons, PPT performed through a CA FFL dealer are exempted from the DOJ handgun safety rooster as well as any concrens aobut Curio and Relic status. 0 -
As Mark stated, a private party handgun sale is exempt from the handgun safety roster. Even though it doesn't matter in this case, California uses the Federal definition for C&R firearms. If the Feds say a firearm is C&R, so does California. 0 -
Well, just in case anyone cares the transaction went extremely smooth---no issues at all. As it turned out the one salesman who I referred to earlier happened to be there. We got to talking and it turns out there was just a small communication problem between us---basically because I misinterpreted his statement on the phone when he said 'California will never recognize this P-64 as a legit C&R' as meaning 'That you will not be able to transfer this gun here, 'cuz Cali will never recognize it as a legit C&R.'
Semantics, I tell ya.
And thanx again for all your help......[:D]0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
5 comments