Home Defense
I know this subject has been covered before, but I can't find it. I'm only interested in firing my Walther PPS equiped with a laser and light, one time at somebody less than 15 feet from me, in a heavy jacket, coming into my bedroom in the middle of the night. I want his next stop to be the morgue. What round do I want?
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I recently purchased a PMR-30. I am impressed with it. I am thinking about replacing the 1911 colt with it for night time home defense. Given the capacity of the PMR vs the knock down of the 1911 its more a less a toss up. Any suggestions on personal preference. And no I dont want both in my nightstand. Way too many grandkids. 0 -
You're asking a lot from any hangun and any hangunner in that high-stress situation. There are lots of great defensive rounds for your 9mm PPS pistol, but with ANY handgun round, expecting to be IPSC accurate and get a "one shot stop" everytime is not too realistic. Practice to shoot center mass, and hit your crook somewhere vital. It more often than not takes 2,3,4 shots to stop him from killing you and yours, expect to fire them. This goes for any handgun with a caliber that starts with 2,3,4 or 5; blowing the guy across the room with a single shot from a handgun is strictly for TV.
Rounds that I would recommend for your 9mm include: Win 124 PDX +P, Hornady Critical defense 115gr, Rem Golden Sabre has had good reviews but I haven'yt used them myself, Speer's gold dot, Federal's Hydra-shok 124 gr etc. Get some of each (or other similarly made defensive rounds), find what shoot best for you and your gun, and keep with them.
I personally use Win 124 +P+ PDX rounds for the full-size 9mm in my daily life, Fed 124 gr standard pressue 9mm for my LC9, and the Win PDx in a LCP.380. I don't feel undergunned with any of them.0 -
Thanks a lot Sir. You're the answer I was hoping to get. 0 -
About the fifth one down in the magazine.
There is no magic bullet.0 -
you're dreaming if you think you can depend on one bullet to do it every single time.
shoot until the threat is removed. if it takes one bullet to drop him or ten, keep going until he no longer poses a threat...0 -
shushirice - I know that you have been here some ... but welcome to GB forums, none the less.
Actually one shot, in the dark, under stressful conditions?
I'd likely put my money on a selection of loads such as those that Riomouse911 referred to in his response.
For self protection I'd rather fire for effect and continue until there is no more ammunition.
As many others have stated, shotguns make for the best home defense firearms ... ( and there is a selection of shot loads to choose from also. ) ( Just my two cents. ) [:0]0 -
First of all, if you're actually worried about an intruder in your bedroom, then handgun caliber is the LAST thing you should be concerned about.
Start with better locks, better lighting, an alarm system, and/or dog, ALL of which are going to serve you FAR better than a bigger/badder bullet in your handgun.
Next issue, WHERE you place the bullet is FAR more important than which caliber. So your skill with your gun is FAR more important that what caliber or type of ammo is in there.
Next, NO bullet fired from a handgun is EVER going to be powerful enough to absolutely guaranteed a stop with one hit. Figure you may need more than one shot and train accordingly. If you need to shoot, you don't stand there admiring your handiwork, you keep shooting until you don't need to anymore. Got it?
As to which round, Riomouse has listed some of the better 9mm loads. So long as they reliably cycle your gun, those are about as good as you're going to get in that caliber.
In my opinion time spent worrying about which round is the "best" is wasted. All of the above will be more similar than different. Even if one of them were better than the others, it probably isn't significantly better, and it would be next to impossible to prove which. So just pick one and move on to more important things.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
First of all, if you're actually worried about an intruder in your bedroom, then handgun caliber is the LAST thing you should be concerned about.
Start with better locks, better lighting, an alarm system, and/or dog, ALL of which are going to serve you FAR better than a bigger/badder bullet in your handgun.
Next issue, WHERE you place the bullet is FAR more important than which caliber. So your skill with your gun is FAR more important that what caliber or type of ammo is in there.
Next, NO bullet fired from a handgun is EVER going to be powerful enough to absolutely guaranteed a stop with one hit. Figure you may need more than one shot and train accordingly. If you need to shoot, you don't stand there admiring your handiwork, you keep shooting until you don't need to anymore. Got it?
As to which round, Riomouse has listed some of the better 9mm loads. So long as they reliably cycle your gun, those are about as good as you're going to get in that caliber.
In my opinion time spent worrying about which round is the "best" is wasted. All of the above will be more similar than different. Even if one of them were better than the others, it probably isn't significantly better, and it would be next to impossible to prove which. So just pick one and move on to more important things.
+1 Buy a shotgun too!0 -
I know this is just lame and dumb. But. Have you ever shot in the dark? Please do. Remember you are asleep. You hear a noise that was loud enough that it woke you up. What about the noises that did not wake you? What was that? oh a noise. Oh A Noise! grab gun, find noise, where, Where! shoot, SHOOT! What is the bad guy doing, now that she (equality of the sexes:) knows you are awake? Ever shot twice in the dark? You are blind after the first shot. Get a shotgun semi-auto and practice in the dark. And always remember house guests, like grandma I can't sleep can I sleep with you and grandpa? 0 -
There is a lot of debate about whether a shotgun or handgun is the better home defense gun, with some big "names" in the gun community coming down on each side.
I won't rehash the arguments here, but suffice it to say that so long as you pick it correctly, one gun ought to be plenty. (IE you shouldn't need both a shotgun AND a handgun).
I will add that in my opinion either a handgun OR a shotgun could work well. The most important factor isn't what type of gun, nor what model, nor what caliber, its the SKILL OF THE USER. A proficient operator can do good work with a cheapy .22 handgun, and a poor operator won't do well with a semi-automatic high cap tactical shotgun.
Personally speaking, a subcompact 9mm pistol wouldn't be my first choice for home defense, but it definitely can work well so long as the one using it is proficient.
In terms of shooting in the dark. . .don't do that.
NRA gun safety rule #4: KNOW YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEYOND IT.
If its too dark to see your target, then you can't identify (ie "know") it, and you shouldn't take a shot. Do so, and you are inviting a tragedy.
If you're going to be relying on a firearm to protect you, then the least you can do is also invest in a $5 flashlight to go with it so you can see what the heck you're doing! Yes, you can use a specialized (and not necessarily expensive) fancy mount to physically attach the light to your gun, but again if you know what you are doing, you can get away without such a mount.
But you CANNOT get away without a light!
Edit:
quote:Good advice. I have seen others advocating leaving the lights off to preserve what they consider a tactical advantage. i.e. you know the layout of your domicile in the dark and can use that to give yourself an edge. On the other hand, shooting a menacing dark figure in the hallway or living room and then turning the lights on and finding your teen was sneaking in from a late date or another family member who got up to get a late night snack would be devastating. I'll opt for a flashlight or snapping on the lights before shooting
Sometimes non-threatening people end up in the wrong house by mistake. I know a case where some drunken frat boy walked into the wrong neighbors house when the owner accidentally left the door open. In some states, that owner would have been immune from criminal charges had he shot the "invader". . .but even so, it still would have been a horrible tragedy, and he'd have to live with that for the rest of his life.
Anyway, having a light and using it are two different things, and you don't necessarily have to put yourself at tactical disadvantage just because you have one.
If you fire a shot you're giving away your position anyway.
Just before you do that, at the very least verify your target with a light. If you had the element of surprise before you turned on the light, you'd still have it afterwards, at least briefly.0 -
Good advice. I have seen others advocating leaving the lights off to preserve what they consider a tactical advantage. i.e. you know the layout of your domicile in the dark and can use that to give yourself an edge. On the other hand, shooting a menacing dark figure in the hallway or living room and then turning the lights on and finding your teen was sneaking in from a late date or another family member who got up to get a late night snack would be devastating. I'll opt for a flashlight or snapping on the lights before shooting. [:)] 0 -
Your job is to neutralize the threat, the number of rounds it takes is something else. Bullet failure is always a possibility with someone wearing heavy clothing, one shot my not be realistic using a subcompact 9mm such as yours. Walther's manual states that the use of +p ammo may accelerate wear on your gun, it goes on to say that the use of +p+ ammo MUST NOT be used in the PPS.
Federal has a new round named "Guard Dog" it is bascially and Expanding Full Metal Jacket (EFMJ). Since its a non hollow point, it can't fill with barrier material, which can cause other bullet types to fail.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=936
Speer offers a +p round developed for short barrel pistols.
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx
First job is the neutralize the threat with well placed shooting. After that you can reflect on the number of rounds you fired.0
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