Antique or C&R, Which should it be?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=254183629
Had a bidder ask why I am selling this as a C&R. I bought this from a quite knowlegible seller who required a C&R. Receiver was made prior to 1898 but modifications were done some time in the late 50s.
I know that a C&R gun is no longer a C&R if it is recently modified. However, does the same hold true for Antique firearms.
Had a bidder ask why I am selling this as a C&R. I bought this from a quite knowlegible seller who required a C&R. Receiver was made prior to 1898 but modifications were done some time in the late 50s.
I know that a C&R gun is no longer a C&R if it is recently modified. However, does the same hold true for Antique firearms.
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Antiques are defined by their receiver or frame. If yours was made prior to 1/1/1899, it's an antique. 0 -
I agree it's C & R, not antique. As it's been rebarreled and altered internally to fire a rimfire cartridge.
If it was in it's original military configuration it would definitely be a antique.0 -
receiver numbers designate that it is an antique.therefore it does not even need a FFL.
it does not matter if barrel has been changed out, it is still an antique[;)]0 -
OK, so far we have 2 for antique and 1 for C&R. This is definately a grey area.
Not only was the barrel changed out, but the extractor has been modified as well. I tend to err on the side of caution. I live just down the road from Leavenworth and it's a nice place to visit, but...
Another question while we are on the subject.
Let's say you take a bolt action antique rifle chambered in 8mm mauser and cut the barrel to 14 inches. Have you created a short barreled rifle that must be registered as a destructive device?0 -
quote:Originally posted by bigtire
Let's say you take a bolt action antique rifle chambered in 8mm mauser and cut the barrel to 14 inches. Have you created a short barreled rifle that must be registered as a destructive device?
It would be a Short Barreled Rifle, not a Destructive Device and would be a National Firearms Act weapon because it uses a "conventional" ignition system firing a fixed cartridge which is readily available here in the USA.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
I agree it's C & R, not antique. As it's been rebarreled and altered internally to fire a rimfire cartridge.
If it was in it's original military configuration it would definitely be a antique.
I respectfully disagree. If I have a 1st Generation .45 Colt SAA made in 1887 and put in a second generation cylinder and barrel and replace the internal parts, it's still an antique because the frame was made in 1887. A lot of antiques have been reworked over the generations but still retain their antique status.
However, if it was made after 1/1/1899, making it a C&R and was significantly modified from its original configuration, it would lose its C&R status and require a 4473.0 -
As I understand it, it is an antique because of the age of the reciever but not a C&R because of the modification.
Under any name, I think it is just a neat rifle because of the combination of two famous names, Winchester and Martini/Henry. Three, really, but Mr Peabody does not get the credit he deserves.0 -
Antique, no doubt about it. 0 -
It is positively an "Antique". 0 -
Antique is not an age. It's a classification. If you wish to, you can change a firearm from one classificatin to another. If you take a rifle, say, and reduce its barrel to less than sixteen inches, you have created a Short Barrelled Rifle [by classification]. That the rifle was classified as antique prior to the alteration, is of no matter. You have created a new class of firearm in your posession by making the alteration.
If I remember correctly, pre 1899 'trapper style' carbines (carbines with barrels less than 16in.) have to be cleared through ATF, and I believe that most have that left the factory in 'trapper' condition have already been cleared for posession.*
If you take an 1895 Spanish American War vintage gatling-gun, which is classified as antique, fix an electric motor to it, you have changed it's classification from antique to machinegun, and it would lose it's classification as antique, and it would be immediately illegal due to it's new classification!
Only muzzle-loaders won't change classification if altered. Joe
*Item in blue, above: Confirmation requested0 -
quote:Originally posted by givette
Antique is not an age. It's a classification. If you wish to, you can change a firearm from one classificatin to another. If you take a rifle, say, and reduce its barrel to less than sixteen inches, you have created a Short Barrelled Rifle [by classification]. That the rifle was classified as antique prior to the alteration, is of no matter. You have created a new class of firearm in your posession by making the alteration.
If I remember correctly, pre 1899 'trapper style' carbines (carbines with barrels less than 16in.) have to be cleared through ATF, and I believe that most have that left the factory in 'trapper' condition have already been cleared for posession.*
If you take an 1895 Spanish American War vintage gatling-gun, which is classified as antique, fix an electric motor to it, you have changed it's classification from antique to machinegun, and it would lose it's classification as antique, and it would be immediately illegal due to it's new classification!
Only muzzle-loaders won't change classification if altered. Joe
*Item in blue, above: Confirmation requested
Pre-1899 manufactured factory Trapper Carbines or Short Barreled Rifles do not need to be cleared by the BATF... only those that were manufactured on or after January 1st 1899 need an exemption letter.0 -
quote:Originally posted by givette
Antique is not an age. It's a classification. If you wish to, you can change a firearm from one classificatin to another. If you take a rifle, say, and reduce its barrel to less than sixteen inches, you have created a Short Barrelled Rifle [by classification]. That the rifle was classified as antique prior to the alteration, is of no matter. You have created a new class of firearm in your posession by making the alteration.
Wrong. "Antique" is a specific age... pre-1899. Altering one does not change its antique status, but it does have an effect if the alteration creates a NFA firearm.0
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