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Need help identifing Model Numbers for these 2 S&W

sigarmsp226
Good Afternoon - I know a lot of folks here know a lot about old S&W's. These belong to my FIL and he sent me this photo. Here is what I can tell you - I think the guys here have (Savage170 and Hawk) identified one as a 2nd model based upon my description only but now that I have a picture I was going to ask for further help. The one that is NOT the top break has Secret Service on it, both I think he said are 32 S&W caliber and I am hoping he is not confusing the 32 S&W caliber in his statement to me that both are S&W guns. For now this is the only photo I have....Thanks in advance for any help. He is wanting to know estimated values.....Mark

budsgunphotos.jpg
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Comments

7 comments

Date Votes
  • Hawk Carse
    It looks like something is backwards here. There were multiple guns using the misleading Secret Service marking. All I can find were top break actions like the top gun in the picture.

    What I found on another board with Google:|
    The Secret Service might be a Harrington & Richardson - firing pin on the hammer, or a Meridian - firing pin in the frame. Iver Johnson also used the name but theirs had a manual safety lever on the frame.
    Caliber is .32 S&W.

    And that is just the American guns, not counting imports.


    The tip-up looks like a Smith & Wesson No 1 1/2 First Issue from 1865-1868. Caliber is .32 Rimfire, not S&W.
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by Hawk Carse
    It looks like something is backwards here. There were multiple guns using the misleading Secret Service marking. All I can find were top break actions like the top gun in the picture.

    What I found on another board with Google:|
    The Secret Service might be a Harrington & Richardson - firing pin on the hammer, or a Meridian - firing pin in the frame. Iver Johnson also used the name but theirs had a manual safety lever on the frame.
    Caliber is .32 S&W.

    And that is just the American guns, not counting imports.


    The tip-up looks like a Smith & Wesson No 1 1/2 First Issue from 1865-1868. Caliber is .32 Rimfire, not S&W.







    The reason for the confusion and the different makes of revolvers using the Secret Service marking. Is that it was a retailers Trade Name. He put them up for bid for the manufacturer who could make them the cheapest. When he needed more revolvers to sell, if Iver Johnson or H & R could make them cheaper, they got the contract.
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  • sigarmsp226
    Man I am confused - So are both of you saying that the pistol that my FIL says is marked Secret Service could be a pistol made by H&R or Iver for Smith or for the Secret Service?....

    Also there is a chance that he crossed his information related to which gun had the Secret Service marking. I think my best bet is to go by this week and look at both pistols and get more pictures for clarification. Mark
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  • Hawk Carse
    No.
    We are saying that H&R and IJ et al made guns marked "Secret Service" as an advertising gimmick to make buyers THINK it was a revolver used by the US Secret Service. There was never a real connection with the real US government agency.
    All P.T. Barnum hokum to draw in the suckers.
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  • sigarmsp226
    Thanks Hawk - Gotta ya now.....I will go by this week to try and get more info. Thanks again to you and Rufe for all of your time and help. Mark
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  • hrf
    The top gun in photo will be the one marked Secret Service Special, and appears to be the one made for the Fred Biffar Co. of Chicago by Iver Johnson. Some but not all will have a safety button on the side not shown.

    Value in condition shown maybe $100-$150. "Secret Service" was just a brand name used by Fred Biffar and does not indicate government use.

    The bottom gun appears to be an S&W Model 1-1/2 first issue, .32 rimfire caliber. Flayderman lists value in Very Good condition as $350.
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  • sigarmsp226
    quote:Originally posted by hrf
    The top gun in photo will be the one marked Secret Service Special, and appears to be the one made for the Fred Biffar Co. of Chicago by Iver Johnson. Some but not all will have a safety button on the side not shown.

    Value in condition shown maybe $100-$150. "Secret Service" was just a brand name used by Fred Biffar and does not indicate government use.

    The bottom gun appears to be an S&W Model 1-1/2 first issue, .32 rimfire caliber. Flayderman lists value in Very Good condition as $350.


    hrf - Thank you Sir.....Found one for sale -

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=251406196
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