Are Curios and Relics Firearms?
I have had a Lot of "debates " with my Lawyer about this. The AZ ARS code 13-3102 leaves the definition of a Curio and Relic to the Bureau of Treasury definitions (Which means ATF) The ATF says any gun over 50 years old, except class 3, Is a C & R, and Not a firearm.
Therefore it can't then be a weapon as 13-3102 Also defines Weapon as: "..includes firearms." So, if Not a firearm, Not a Weapon? Also the word "include" does not mean All firearms--it is just a suffix so Some firearms are not "discluded".
Therefore it can't then be a weapon as 13-3102 Also defines Weapon as: "..includes firearms." So, if Not a firearm, Not a Weapon? Also the word "include" does not mean All firearms--it is just a suffix so Some firearms are not "discluded".
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C&R eligible guns are firearms by Federal definition. The C&R distinction means the gun can be shipped interstate to a holder of a Type 03 FFL. 0 -
No, they are Not. The ATF tech branch here in Tucson Told me; and the C & R book; says they are Not :"Firearms" by Federal law.
It May vary,by state law. Again, you give No References. I can give you names, phone numbers, web sites....0 -
Antiques are not firearms. Never heard of C&R not being a firearm. Have had C&R for years and this is a new one to me. Chapter and Verse?? 0 -
quote:No, they are Not. The ATF tech branch here in Tucson Told me; and the C & R book; says they are Not :"Firearms" by Federal law.
It May vary,by state law. Again, you give No References. I can give you names, phone numbers, web sites....
OK...You win...[;)]0 -
quote:No, they are Not. The ATF tech branch here in Tucson Told me; and the C & R book; says they are Not :"Firearms" by Federal law.
It May vary,by state law. Again, you give No References. I can give you names, phone numbers, web sites....
Sorry,,your wong,,I have held a C&R for over 13yrs,,they are firearms and there is class 3 C&R weapons,,your wrong on both counts,,an antique built pre 1899 are not considered firearms,,they proof of this is simple,,you can mail an antique to anyones house without a lic..But you must hold a C&R FFL lic to have a C&R firearm shipped direct to you.go read here and you will see about every 4th word the ATF uses is Firearm. I just noticed you said you contacted the Treasury LOL http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/0 -
quote:Originally posted by ninefingers
No, they are Not. The ATF tech branch here in Tucson Told me; and the C & R book; says they are Not :"Firearms" by Federal law.
It May vary,by state law. Again, you give No References. I can give you names, phone numbers, web sites....
The law and 27CFR say that they are firearms. The only place in the C&R book that mentions antiques not under the GCA is Sec IIIA. Every other firearm in the book is Federally regulated.
Either you misunderstood the BATF agent or he misunderstood your question.0 -
As stated it is the written law that counts. An ATF employee's opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. 0 -
Slumlord: The written law backs up exactly what the Technical Field Agent said.
Even though antiques, and replicas of muzzle loaders, aren't firearms by Fed law, AZ law doesn't say so. States Vary on this.
I guess I got misconstuued. They are Firearms, by the C & R list, but not by ARS code 13-3102, which exempts C & R. I was asking about individual states.0 -
sorry ninefingers but you are wrong again,,I followed YOUR link and read it,,here it is,I am going to delete things about building and such that does not apply so its not so long, but in Arizona,,if it fires a projectile,,its a firearm
quote:13-3101. Definitions
A. In this chapter, unless the context otherwise requires:
1. "Deadly weapon" means anything that is designed for lethal use. The term includes a firearm.
2. "Deface" means to remove, alter or destroy the manufacturer's serial number.
3. "Explosive" means any dynamite, nitroglycerine, black powder, or other similar explosive material, including plastic explosives. Explosive does not include ammunition or ammunition components such as primers, percussion caps, smokeless powder, black powder and black powder substitutes used for hand loading purposes.
4. "Firearm" means any loaded or unloaded handgun, pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun or other weapon that will expel, is designed to expel or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive. Firearm does not include a firearm in permanently inoperable condition.
5. "Improvised explosive device" means a device that incorporates explosives or destructive, lethal, noxious, pyrotechnic or incendiary chemicals and that is designed to destroy, disfigure, terrify or harass.
6. "Occupied structure" means any building, object, vehicle, watercraft, aircraft or place with sides and a floor that is separately securable from any other structure attached to it, that is used for lodging, business, transportation, recreation or storage and in which one or more human beings either are or are likely to be present or so near as to be in equivalent danger at the time the discharge of a firearm occurs. Occupied structure includes any dwelling house, whether occupied, unoccupied or vacant.
7. "Prohibited possessor" means any person:
(a) Who has been found to constitute a danger to self or to others or to be persistently or acutely disabled or gravely disabled pursuant to court order under section 36-540, and whose right to possess a firearm has not been restored pursuant to section 13-925.
(b) Who has been convicted within or without this state of a felony or who has been adjudicated delinquent for a felony and whose civil right to possess or carry a gun or firearm has not been restored.
(c) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of imprisonment in any correctional or detention facility.
(d) Who is at the time of possession serving a term of probation pursuant to a conviction for a domestic violence offense as defined in section 13-3601 or a felony offense, parole, community supervision, work furlough, home arrest or release on any other basis or who is serving a term of probation or parole pursuant to the interstate compact under title 31,0 -
Sharpshooter: Keep reading. I said 13-3102, anyway.
It says those: "defined by the US treasury as Curios and Relics are not firearms."0 -
If you already know the answer, or at least are sold on your opinion of the answer, why do you ask?
"Firearm" has different definitions, depending on which section of the law you are reading. For instance, my SIG P229 is not a firearm under NFA, but it is darn sure a firearm.0 -
Is this considered a firearm? 
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