MA mag law (was Ruger mags)
quote:Dfletcher from the last thread:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=533827
MA seems similar to CA on the importation violation, is there a statute of limitations regarding importation violation?
Good question. I'd imagine there should be, but I don't know the answer.
I also don't know if anyone in MA has ever actually been convicted of importing a high cap mag, or if so, under what circumstances.
quote:For example, a person holding an LTC- A brings in a Glock 37 hi cap on 1 Jan 2005. They're pinched 1 Jan 2011 - has the statute expired? Since the state has the burden of proof must they demonstrate the mag was imported within the statute?
Again, don't know the answer to this. In practice, since Glock 37s are effectively unavailable in MA (all Glocks are banned as "unsafe" by the Attorney General regulation, even though they're standard issue for many metro police depts in MA), there would be no reason to do this anyway.
A better example (maybe) would be someone importing a high cap mag for a legal Smith and Wesson auto pistol.
In practice, assuming there was no other significant accompanying criminal activity, I suspect they'd probably just confiscate or destroy the mag and not bring charges. Getting ANY gun in MA is hard enough that nobody is going to risk losing their firearms rights and going to jail over a $30 mag.
quote:
How actively do MA shooters challenge or finesse these laws? In CA we're constantly pushing the envelope and it has paid off very well.
In my experience, legal challenge in MA is pretty anemic. I think as a block, there are just far fewer shooting enthusiasts in MA than CA. Its a shame, especially if you consider that historically many of the better gun makers were located in MA. For example, Smith and Wesson still is HQ'd in Springfield MA, with Kahr Arms in Worcester (IIRC).
Even though some of these rules are probably unconstitutional, with a few rare exceptions none of the gun dealers in the State are willing to risk having their licenses pulled (or worse) by "finessing" these rules.
MA is one of the most gun-hostile states there is.
Not only are their ridiculous State laws, with three separate classes of licenses to carry (itself probably an unconstitutional arrangement), but the licenses are issued on a "may issue" basis, meaning some CLEO can deny anyone a license for any reason they like. For example, in the city of Brookline, the Chief of Police won't even issue carry licenses to his own off-duty police officers. There have been cases where CLEOs have taken away people's licenses to carry for what amounts to BS reasons.
Further, in addition to highly restrictive State law, there are also MA State attorney general regulations that effectively have the force of law, even though they've never been voted on by the MA legislature. By threat or actual lawsuit, the AG office has basically bullied every gun store owner in the State to comply with its regs, and its also done the same to a variety of out-of-state vendors to keep them from selling gun-related things into MA.
My experience has been that most MA gun owners just want to keep their heads down. The MA judiciary is liberal and effectively anti-gun from the bottom to the top all the way to the MA Supreme Court, and even the Federal judiciary is liberal too. Nobody wants to be the "test case", because that could entail serious criminal charges, and potentially years of lawsuits all the way to the highest appellate courts before they might get a case in front of a non gun-hating judge.
I say exceptions, because there is one dealer (whom I will NOT name, though I've bought several guns from him on Gunbroker) who would basically bend the rules as far as he thought possible. He sold me a non-compliant gun that was only manufactured right after the MA "permitted" list came out. His rationale was that the gun was imported into the state during a time when MA said it wasn't yet going to enforce the law, and was therefore "grandfathered" in. Was it? Don't know. . .don't care to find out, though if not it would be HIS head on the block for doing the transfer, not mine.
There is (or was) one officer on the gun reg board in Boston who WANTS to hand out LTCs.
I've heard there are a few gun enthusiast LEOs out there who will (legally) transfer "restricted" items to LTC holders.
So, like many corrupt systems, if you're appropriately connected, you may encounter some "wiggle" room.
There is a gun market in MA with all sorts of guns that were "grandfathered" in, but can no longer be imported, but unfortunately, supply and demand being what they are, you may end up paying quite a bit more for some of these than their going prices in "free" states.
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=533827
MA seems similar to CA on the importation violation, is there a statute of limitations regarding importation violation?
Good question. I'd imagine there should be, but I don't know the answer.
I also don't know if anyone in MA has ever actually been convicted of importing a high cap mag, or if so, under what circumstances.
quote:For example, a person holding an LTC- A brings in a Glock 37 hi cap on 1 Jan 2005. They're pinched 1 Jan 2011 - has the statute expired? Since the state has the burden of proof must they demonstrate the mag was imported within the statute?
Again, don't know the answer to this. In practice, since Glock 37s are effectively unavailable in MA (all Glocks are banned as "unsafe" by the Attorney General regulation, even though they're standard issue for many metro police depts in MA), there would be no reason to do this anyway.
A better example (maybe) would be someone importing a high cap mag for a legal Smith and Wesson auto pistol.
In practice, assuming there was no other significant accompanying criminal activity, I suspect they'd probably just confiscate or destroy the mag and not bring charges. Getting ANY gun in MA is hard enough that nobody is going to risk losing their firearms rights and going to jail over a $30 mag.
quote:
How actively do MA shooters challenge or finesse these laws? In CA we're constantly pushing the envelope and it has paid off very well.
In my experience, legal challenge in MA is pretty anemic. I think as a block, there are just far fewer shooting enthusiasts in MA than CA. Its a shame, especially if you consider that historically many of the better gun makers were located in MA. For example, Smith and Wesson still is HQ'd in Springfield MA, with Kahr Arms in Worcester (IIRC).
Even though some of these rules are probably unconstitutional, with a few rare exceptions none of the gun dealers in the State are willing to risk having their licenses pulled (or worse) by "finessing" these rules.
MA is one of the most gun-hostile states there is.
Not only are their ridiculous State laws, with three separate classes of licenses to carry (itself probably an unconstitutional arrangement), but the licenses are issued on a "may issue" basis, meaning some CLEO can deny anyone a license for any reason they like. For example, in the city of Brookline, the Chief of Police won't even issue carry licenses to his own off-duty police officers. There have been cases where CLEOs have taken away people's licenses to carry for what amounts to BS reasons.
Further, in addition to highly restrictive State law, there are also MA State attorney general regulations that effectively have the force of law, even though they've never been voted on by the MA legislature. By threat or actual lawsuit, the AG office has basically bullied every gun store owner in the State to comply with its regs, and its also done the same to a variety of out-of-state vendors to keep them from selling gun-related things into MA.
My experience has been that most MA gun owners just want to keep their heads down. The MA judiciary is liberal and effectively anti-gun from the bottom to the top all the way to the MA Supreme Court, and even the Federal judiciary is liberal too. Nobody wants to be the "test case", because that could entail serious criminal charges, and potentially years of lawsuits all the way to the highest appellate courts before they might get a case in front of a non gun-hating judge.
I say exceptions, because there is one dealer (whom I will NOT name, though I've bought several guns from him on Gunbroker) who would basically bend the rules as far as he thought possible. He sold me a non-compliant gun that was only manufactured right after the MA "permitted" list came out. His rationale was that the gun was imported into the state during a time when MA said it wasn't yet going to enforce the law, and was therefore "grandfathered" in. Was it? Don't know. . .don't care to find out, though if not it would be HIS head on the block for doing the transfer, not mine.
There is (or was) one officer on the gun reg board in Boston who WANTS to hand out LTCs.
I've heard there are a few gun enthusiast LEOs out there who will (legally) transfer "restricted" items to LTC holders.
So, like many corrupt systems, if you're appropriately connected, you may encounter some "wiggle" room.
There is a gun market in MA with all sorts of guns that were "grandfathered" in, but can no longer be imported, but unfortunately, supply and demand being what they are, you may end up paying quite a bit more for some of these than their going prices in "free" states.
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Thanks for the info. I grew up in MA/NH, Mom & family have lived there all their lives - Andover, Haverhill and southern NH. Got my 1st LTC (self defense) at age 18, so things have changed. Mom still has her LTC-A although I think she maintains it out of habit, not practice.
Reason I asked about MA is in CA we have similar restrictions and have done alot to use the law creatively. We have the "OK to import" handguns too, others can not be, but single action revolvers and single shot pistols are exempt. Most people equate those with a Ruger Vaquero or a T/C Encore but - remove the DA sear on a Smith & Wesson Model 15 and it qualifies under the exemption. Install a single shot "sled" in any 1911, BHP or Beretta and it qualifies as single shot. I'm picking up a Henry "Mare's Leg" pistol next week - single shot exemption via a plug in the mag tube. Once in, they're returned to their original condition.
There are literally dozens of similar procedures for all manner of long guns and handguns, some are very, very creative. I think the ability to do this came about because "our side" put language in the bills knowing a bit more than the other side - we knew the practical result of not banning hi cap mag possession and allowing "rebuild kits" into the state would be making enforcement almost impossible.
I have no idea what the particulars are of MA current law, but hope shooters groups there really push the envelope in court and explore what they can do to whittle away. It can be a bit discouraging to go to a gun website (CalGuns deals with CA gun ownership) and read mostly about law and "how to" as opposed to good old fashioned gun info, but without it we wouldn't have nearly the ARs, AKs, FALs, new model 1911s and all sorts of stuff the gun control folks here wanted to prohibit.0
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