Move to 'common' ammo
The 'common' and most readily available ammo seems to be 45acp, 9mm Luger (I can't say NATO anymore), .22 rimfire, 5.56 x 45 , 7.62 x 51 , then 12 or 20 ga tube guns.
I am considering some trading to get into the 'common ammo' group. As an example, I have a Belgium BAR in '06 that I really wish was in .308, it will go on the trading block. I have a couple milsurp long guns in 'not common' calibers that will remain 'keepsakes', but others will go. In that vien I am looking for somethings in .308, and I'm considering an AR from DPMS.
Has anyone made a similar change to common fodder, and whats the scuttle on DPMS's AR's.
Thanks
EDIT - SAVAGE and tsr . You're right, '06 is in most any establishment that sells rifle ammo. I had not considered tsr's reminder on the supply / demand of military ammo.....even after the recent hint of that exact movement. I'll re-think this , even though it will cost me scarce funding, I can load my 'odd' brass...and possibly should glom on to a bit more loaded brass.
THANKS AGAIN
I am considering some trading to get into the 'common ammo' group. As an example, I have a Belgium BAR in '06 that I really wish was in .308, it will go on the trading block. I have a couple milsurp long guns in 'not common' calibers that will remain 'keepsakes', but others will go. In that vien I am looking for somethings in .308, and I'm considering an AR from DPMS.
Has anyone made a similar change to common fodder, and whats the scuttle on DPMS's AR's.
Thanks
EDIT - SAVAGE and tsr . You're right, '06 is in most any establishment that sells rifle ammo. I had not considered tsr's reminder on the supply / demand of military ammo.....even after the recent hint of that exact movement. I'll re-think this , even though it will cost me scarce funding, I can load my 'odd' brass...and possibly should glom on to a bit more loaded brass.
THANKS AGAIN
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DPMS makes excellent quality AR's and AR parts. Don't let these guys BS you that you have to buy LMT, Daniel Defense, RR or any other big name very expensive AR to have a reliable quality AR. DPMS will do the job same,same as the above big buck AR's. 0 -
I have plenty of things in just about everything you can imagine, including the common fodder you list. Therefor I am keeping everything, as it will be the common fodder that dries up first, as the worlds militaries soak it up like a sponge. They will be trying to depress the uprisings. In many countries abroad as we speak, almost all of the common fodder you list is banned for private use. Meaning military chamberings, are restricted for military and police, and it is a crime for an ordinary citizen to carry them. You need to keep that old 06', as that is one of the worlds most common, and most versatile chamberings.
The DPMS is a great platform. If you search around you can find some better, and I did. It is not cheap by any means, but it is reliable, and an outright tack driver, and is gauranteed for 3/4 MOA. Mine shoots 3/8-1/2 MOA all day long. GA Precision; GAP-10 is the one.
Best
EDIT 1
gotstolefrom,
Now you are thinking. You are on the right track. If I were you, I would be stocking up on powder, bullets, brass, and primer's. Of course you will need a place to store the stuff and use it too. Make sure you have dies for everything you own!
Best0 -
If you are stuck on an AR design, I'd look at the LAR-8 offering. Just like other AR10s, but it uses (relatively) cheap and plentiful FAL mags.
That said, I'd look at a FAL before the AR10 platform...0 -
30-06 is about as common you can get no matter where you go you can find 30-06 ammo and for the heavier bullets has a advantage over the 308. 0 -
My AR's in 5.56 and 6mm don't like SP bullets just HP and FMJ. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by gotstolefrom
The 'common' and most readily available ammo seems to be 45acp, 9mm Luger (I can't say NATO anymore), .22 rimfire, 5.56 x 45 , 7.62 x 51 , then 12 or 20 ga tube guns.
Yes that's true. . .but.
First of all 9mm NATO and 9x19 mm parabellum aren't exactly the same thing. Yes, just about every pretty much all modern 9mms will handle either round just fine, but technically speaking, 9mm NATO is loaded to a particular pressure spec, which is a bit higher than "ordinary" 9mm rounds. Whatever. . .this is mostly semantics.
For other pistols rounds, .40SW is a "staple" now, and can be found pretty much anywhere ammo is sold. Ditto for .380ACP, .38 special, .357 magnum, and usually .44 magnum. None of these are hard to find.
Obviously .22 long rifle is a staple that you can usually find everywhere ammo is sold, but so is .22 magnum.
On .308 (7.62x51), yes, technically that's more of a military "staple" than .30-06, and you're much more likely to be able to find SURPLUS .308 than .30-06 nowadays, but really, you can still find .30-06 anywhere ammo is sold.
Not only is '30-06 it not some esoteric round, its still one of the most popular hunting rounds in North America! You're actually probably likely to find a wider variety of .30-06 rounds than .308 in a well stocked store.
Obviously .223 (5.56x45) is another common round you can find anywhere, potentially in military surplus.
Other extremely common rifle rounds that you should be able to find anywhere ammo is sold include .30/30, 7.62x39, .243 Winchester, and a few others.
Pretty much the ONLY reason you'd need to switch from ANY of these common rounds to a more popular military one is if you want to fire it from a military platform gun, or if you want access to military surplus ammo. From a ballistics standpoint, .30-06 can do anything .308 can do, and more.0 -
I have kind of gone the opposite route. I find a gun more interesting if its in a caliber I don't already have. If I buy it, I buy a couple of boxes of different ammunition for it. Variety is the spice of life I guess. I have several guns of common caliber, ie 357Mag, 9MM, .223, but I also enjoy .32-20, 41Mag, 32 Mag etc...Personaly, I wouldn't sell a gun of one caliber to get another similar gun of a "common" caliber. I would just wait until I could afford both.
As for DPMS, I have no experience with the .308, but I have (3) .223 in different configurations and have had zero problems.0 -
Gotstolefrom,
First I would say, for commonality and ease of aquiring I would look at the common hunting rounds you find on the shelf, not military rounds. tsr1965 said it best, that if SHTF, then all the militarys would be soaking up military ammo like sponges. Case in point, before 9-11-2001 finding 7.62x39 was not only a gimme it was literally cheaper than dirt. The military buys up many tons (again literally) of it and all of a sudden it's really hard to find. Now, it's just finally coming back onto the market. Around that same time .308 started getting scarce. Then Obama got elected and the 'big scare' came along and for almost two years you could not buy .308 locally in the twin cities area. .223 and 5.56 went from being all over the place to, "Here's what you can have...and it'll be $20+ a box, thank you very much."
Conversely, I always found .243 Win and .270 on the shelf. 30-06 got a little thin sometimes, but other than that it was found in reasonable quantity as well.
Bottom line is get what you think you will need, before you can't get it.
Beantown,
All NATO 9mm is 9x19/9mm Parabellum/9mm Luger. All the same outside round, no difference between NATO and civilian pressures. EXCEPT!...machine pistol loads. Machine pistol loads are hotter and should never be shot in a handgun. That was actually one of the excuses the military gave in the Beretta M9 case. I know the pistols are not up to the task, but the military wanted a good tie-in with Italy over this.
Also note the pressure differences between .223/5.56 Do not fire 5.56 in a .223 chamber. Pressure is too high. And, .308/7.62x51. You shouldn't fire .308 in a 7.62x51 chamber. Most military rifles will handle it, but the .308 loading is 'approved' for higher pressures and can therefore be loaded to them. Although, .223 can be fired in 5.56 chambers and 7.62 in .308 chambers.0 -
Here's another idea. Stock up on ammo that fits military guns so you can feed the ones you liberate. Being able to take the arms of the opposing force for your own use is tantamount for arming an insurrgency. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
Beantown,
All NATO 9mm is 9x19/9mm Parabellum/9mm Luger. All the same outside round, no difference between NATO and civilian pressures.
My sources say different. Not only are there potential pressure spec differences, but by definition all 9mm NATO ammo must use ball 124 grain bullets. This isn't true of 9mm luger rounds, which, for example might come in 115 grain, 147 grain, ball, truncated cone, or hollowpoint configurations.
Reference:
quote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×19mm_Parabellum
The 9 mm cartridge has been manufactured by, or for, more than 70 different countries and has become a standard pistol caliber for NATO and other military forces around the world. Its official nomenclature among NATO users is "9 mm NATO".
The 9 mm NATO can be considered as an overpressure variant of the 9x19mm Parabellum that is defined by NATO standards.[20] The service pressure Pmax of the 9 mm NATO is rated at 252 MPa (36,550 psi) where C.I.P. rates the 9 mm Luger PTmax somewhat lower at 235 MPa (34,083 psi). The 315.0 MPa (45,687 psi) proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm NATO proof test however equals the proofing test pressure used in the 9 mm Luger C.I.P. proof test.
Another source:
quote:http://gunnuts.net/2009/04/03/9mm-nato-vs-9mm-luger/
what's the difference between ammo that's loaded to 9mm NATO pressures and ammo that's loaded to 9mm Luger pressures? First off, you have to establish that there is a difference, because there are people out there who will fight and argue that NATO spec ammo is exactly the same as commercial 9mm Luger. It's not, trust me.
Aside from the obvious difference in bullet weight (9mm NATO is 124 grain, most commercial plinking 9mm ammo is 115 grain) rounds that are loaded to NATO spec are loaded to a higher pressure than rounds loaded to industry standard.
The ammo industry uses something called SAAMI Standards to establish the pressures that ammo should be loaded to. The SAAMI pressure for 9mm Luger ammo is around 35,000 PSI, and C.I.P (think European SAAMI) rates 9mm Luger ammo at 34,080 PSI. According to documentation, the 9mm NATO rounds are pressured at 36,500 PSI (again according to CIP). That means that when compared to standard 9mm ammo, the 9mm NATO ammo is running a higher pressure
Enough on this. As I said earlier, EVERY modern service gun (including ALL Glock, Smith, Beretta, Ruger, SIG, Walther, H&K, and CZ etc) is rated for unlimited use of 9mm NATO/9mm +P rounds. So in practice, unless you're shooting some antique luger or some chitzy pot-metal gun like a Hi-point, or intend to put tens of thousands of rounds through your pistol, then you don't need to worry about the slight increase in pressure with 9mm NATO.
On the other civilian/military overlaps, the only thing I'll add is that while on paper .308 Winchester can be loaded to higher pressures than 7.62x51 NATO and can potentially damage military guns, I know that in PRACTICE, many of the commercial loads are NOT loaded up to the full potential of the .308 round for exactly this reason. In short, while you always should use the appropriate ammo for your gun (and that means true 7.62x51 spec ammo for military type guns) you're probably NOT going to damage your AR-10 with a box of Winchester "white box" .308s from off the Walmart shelf.
In terms of the original question of common calibers vs uncommon ones, the big question is really, what are you worried about?
There are advantages to having guns in common military type calibers namely that the ammo is usually easy to find, usually reasonably priced, and occasionally cheaper military surplus can be had. Military type ammo tends to also work well for ordinary hunting (with the appropriate bullet types) and the typical military-type platforms that take it are usually rugged and reliable.
On the other hand, more esoteric "niche" cartridges may offer real ballistic advantages for certain applications. It just comes down to what you are trying to do with your guns.
As mentioned, the most popular cartridges are usually the easiest to find, BUT they are also the first ones to be depleted when there is a run on ammo (like after Obama was elected). In 2009 you couldn't find any .22LR, .380, 9mm, .40SW, .45ACP, .38 special, 7.62x39, or .223 on the shelves, yet you could still find .280 Remington, 7mm magnum, .25-06, and some of the other really useful, just not quite so popular rifle hunting rounds.
If sudden (or gradual) ammo unavailability is your concern, the way to address it is just to make sure you have your own supply of ammo. Ammo doesn't take up a lot of space, and if stored properly lasts for decades. Ditto for reloading components, and those can keep you in functional ammo for a long time, starting with a relatively small number of cases.
If you're worried about a shortage of .30-06 (or whatever) just buy yourself a few cases, lock them up, and forget about it. I personally keep a stash of at least 500 rounds of ammo for every common caliber gun I own, including at least one box of premium or soft-point ammo for hunting/emergency use. The more rare calibers, get at least a few boxes each.
If there were some political or social disaster and ammo became unavailable, I think I'd be covered for quite a while.0
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