UPDATE Help with shot shell loading
I could some advice on what is happening while crimping shot gun shells on a MEC 650n. This is my first time reloading shot shells.
First of all the load I am using is:
Win AA hulls
Win 209 primers
7/8 oz #8 shot
Win WAA 20 wad
Unique powder 15 grains
I have checked the weight of the powder and shot dispensed and they are accurate.
Below is a picture of after the wad is set and the shot is dispensed:
After the first crimp stage:
It seems like the shot is too high in the hull at this point.
After the second crimp:
Usually there is a piece or two of shot that falls out at this stage.
On the left is the shell that I loaded and on the right is a factory:
Note the shot stuck in the crimp.
I have tried to adjust the crimp, this is the best crimp I have been able to get. The shell is very close in length to the factory.
Also tried adjusting the wad pressure but that has not helped at all.
What am I missing here?
Thanks for your time.
UPDATE
The shells I am loading are the HS AA's.
Bambambam hit the nail on the head with cut the case open and see what is going on. I cut the shell open that I loaded, did not see the wad hung up on the hull base but it was not touching the hull base. Since this is my first time inside of a shotgun shell I decided to open up a factory Win AA and see what it looked like.
The wad was down into the hull base on the factory shell, so I pulled to two the rest of the way apart and found that volume of powder in the factory shell was much smaller than in my reload.
I weighed the two different powders and found that they were close to the same weight (within a grain).
The Win WAA 20 wad must be the same as used in the factory AA shells; they were identical except for the color of the plastic.
After a bit of internet research I ended up buying some Winchester Super-field (WSF) powder and some smaller powder bushings. WSF is a much denser powder than the Unique I had been using.
Using the load listed on the wwpowder website, I was able to get very good looking shells. I did have to make a very slight adjustment to the second crimp die.
Thanks everyone for all your help on this.
First of all the load I am using is:
Win AA hulls
Win 209 primers
7/8 oz #8 shot
Win WAA 20 wad
Unique powder 15 grains
I have checked the weight of the powder and shot dispensed and they are accurate.
Below is a picture of after the wad is set and the shot is dispensed:
After the first crimp stage:
It seems like the shot is too high in the hull at this point.
After the second crimp:
Usually there is a piece or two of shot that falls out at this stage.
On the left is the shell that I loaded and on the right is a factory:
Note the shot stuck in the crimp.
I have tried to adjust the crimp, this is the best crimp I have been able to get. The shell is very close in length to the factory.
Also tried adjusting the wad pressure but that has not helped at all.
What am I missing here?
Thanks for your time.
UPDATE
The shells I am loading are the HS AA's.
Bambambam hit the nail on the head with cut the case open and see what is going on. I cut the shell open that I loaded, did not see the wad hung up on the hull base but it was not touching the hull base. Since this is my first time inside of a shotgun shell I decided to open up a factory Win AA and see what it looked like.
The wad was down into the hull base on the factory shell, so I pulled to two the rest of the way apart and found that volume of powder in the factory shell was much smaller than in my reload.
I weighed the two different powders and found that they were close to the same weight (within a grain).
The Win WAA 20 wad must be the same as used in the factory AA shells; they were identical except for the color of the plastic.
After a bit of internet research I ended up buying some Winchester Super-field (WSF) powder and some smaller powder bushings. WSF is a much denser powder than the Unique I had been using.
Using the load listed on the wwpowder website, I was able to get very good looking shells. I did have to make a very slight adjustment to the second crimp die.
Thanks everyone for all your help on this.
0
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Changing one variable at a time, I would try:
Reducing shot weight, maybe to 3/4 oz,
Reduce powder charge,
Try a shorter wad,
or, use another powder that takes up less volume.
I don't load 20 ga so I am not real familiar with your componet setup, but what I see is too much powder, wad, and shot to fit in the crimped case. Since adjusting crimp and increased wad pressure didn't work, I believe you need to reduce the load in some way.
Reducing powder charge or shot amount would be my first choices, as that is something you can do at no extra cost. Changing wads or powder would be my next step, but might require purchasing additional componets (unless you already have some in stock). Of course, you might have to shoot a little bit more if you buy extra componets![:)]
Hope this helps!0 -
Are you using the proper wad seating pressure? 0 -
I have had this problem with 12ga.
Your #'s look good.
Now, one adjustment can fix it, or a combinations of things can fix it. Don't get to carried away with moving to many things all at once. I've learned the hard way.
First, it looks like you may need some more wad pressure to put the wad down further on the powder leaving more room for shot. Page #11 photo #35 on the Mec Manual(link below) shows this.
Second, that should get you room for shot. If it does and your crimp is swirled or has a hole in it were shot falls out refer to Page # 11-12 & Photo #35-40.(photo#35 shows the pre crimp Spindex crimp statrer.
Lastly, if you still have problems I have called for Technical Service. They helped me out ,and offered to fix it if I send it in.
Good luck, don't get frustrated working on it. Take your time and have fun[:)]
Edit= If wad pressure adjustment didn't work, cut open a shell with a utility knife and make sure the wad isn't catching on the inside of the hull base.
http://www.mecreloaders.com/documents/ownermanuals/650.pdf0 -
I checked your load in the lyman #4 shotshell reloading book and it seems correct. When I reloaded some AA 20's for a friend I found that the new AA marked HS will load with the stuff for the old ones without the HS marking. It was hard to find the old cases to use up the wads I bought for her. Later I gave her the press after showing her and the daughter how to use it. From your pic's I'd use less shot like a 3/4 oz bushing and see if that works better for crimping. 0 -
I loaded a bunch of 12,20,28 and 410 AA's in the past using the older hull. About the same time the HS hulls came out I quit shooting shotgun,so never loaded the new hulls.
I think you will find that you would need the HS wad if you are not using it already. Also look into your wad pressure.
Maybe one of these days I will pull out all of my empty hulls,wads and bags of $10 shot and get rid of it.0 -
Im thinking you need a different wad 0 -
Nate, any luck yet? 0 -
This looks like the crimp starter is adjusted to far down or your using the wrong wad. 0 -
There is a taper on the body & mouth of the case. The die needs to be adjusted for less. The crimp punch is set to deep also. The load your using is OK. Keep working on the die adjustment. http://www.mecreloaders.com/Order/650PartsList.asp 0
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