Bears! S&W Backpacker vs Anaconda?
In semi-retirement I'm planning to spend more time back-packing in the wilderness of Montana, Alaska, etc. Knowing there's a chance that I'll encounter either Black or Grizzly bears in their habitat, I'm concerned about personal safety. I've always carried bear spray in Yellowstone, etc., but am thinking I ought to have a back-up "just in case". I've done some sketchy reading about what sort of firepower it would take to "neutralize" a bear, but I'm hoping to get some feedback from gunbroker folks regarding the pros and cons of either the S&W Backpacker 44 mag, or perhaps the Colt Anaconda 44 mag with 4" barrel. Any advice, or other options I should consider will be greatly appreciated. Much obliged.
Just thought of one other option that's probably crazy but what about something in .45 Long Colt?
Just thought of one other option that's probably crazy but what about something in .45 Long Colt?
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A S&W 629 with a 4" barrel, the Anaconda, Ruger Redhawk with a 5 1/2 inch barrel is where it starts. All those being in 44 Magnum, of course. I would prefer something bigger, like a 454 Casull, either in a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan, Freedom Arms, or the 500 S&W. The bigger the gun you can handle, the better you are going to be at stopping a bear.
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EDIT 1
Yes, I agree, somewhat about the 45 Colt. However, one must realize that the SAA is the handy, hand sized firearm, most prevalent in that chambering. THEY ARE NOT TO BE USED WITH THOSE ROCKS AND DYNAMITE LOADS. The only strong ones are the Ruger Blackhawk, Redhawk, and Freedom Ams.
EDIT 2
Beantown,
quote:Pretty much ANY bullet that hits it will glance off if it hits at a shallow angle, including .44 magnum rounds and above. The only way you're getting through that amount of armor is with a high velocity bullet and a nearly perpendicular hit. That may not even be possible depending on which way the bears head is angled at the millisecond the round makes contact.
I disagree with most of that statement. It is momentun that will get thru that head, not energy and speed alone. Leave the Velocity squared out of the equation, and go with the Taylor factor on this one. The guys with experience in Alaska, in stopping big, wounded pissed off bears, like the 12 gauge slug, and big heavy HARD, slow moving rifle bullets of 400 grains or better.
Also, the 45 Colt in the right handgun, is much better than the 44 magnum. You just have to make sure it is the right load, in the right handgun, lest you are holding on to a live grenade, where the pin is the trigger.
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Years back when I was still in the business use to sell a bunch of the Mossberg 12 gauge convertible pumps, with the pistol grip. This was to the guys who were going to Alaska for fishing. They seemed to think a Mossberg pump loaded with slugs was more effective close range bear medicine then a handgun. They would carry them slung and fitted with the pistol grip not the wooden stock. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
A S&W 629 with a 4" barrel, the Anaconda, Ruger Redhawk with a 5 1/2 inch barrel is where it starts. All those being in 44 Magnum, of course. I would prefer something bigger, like a 454 Casull, either in a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan, Freedom Arms, or the 500 S&W. The bigger the gun you can handle, the better you are going to be at stopping a bear.
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Thanks for the quick response! I guess I should have mentioned that bulk and weight figures into selecting any back-up for my bear spray. I'm hoping to find something that is relatively small and not too long or heavy, hence the 2.5 or 4 inch barrel guns I'm considering. If a 44 mag load can stop a Grizzly (which bullet mfgr. and which load??) in an attack situation at relatively close range, that's pretty much all the recoil these old arthritic social-security drawing hands can manage :-).0 -
If I were going to carry a 44 mag as a sidearm for bear, I would like nothing less than 270 gr bullets & 300 gr would be better. Some of the premium companies produce 300+ gr hard cast ammo for the 44. However, as the weight of the projectile increases, the recoil also usually increases.
I would personally prefer a 45 Colt for that purpose, but one loaded with a good heavy bullet @ 1100-1200 fps. 45 caliber is bigger than a 44 (.454 vs .429) and a good 300 or 300+ gr bullet can be obtained in loaded ammo from various companies. In the old Colt, stay away from the "cowboy loads." They are quite mild.
Good Luck.0 -
A long time ago I shot a 400 pound black bear with a hand loaded 175 gr Hornady out of a bolt action 7mm Rem Mag right through the heart and lungs at about 80 yards. That bear covered about 60 yards before I put one in the same zone but from the other side. I could stick my fist compleatly through the conected exit holes. I concluded that bears are too dumb to know their dead. Whatever hand gun you carry I'd make sure that you are really good and fast at moving targets and your speed loading techniques are finely honed. Oh and by the way that bears skull turned 4 hard cast 245 gr 44 Mag hot handloads at 50 feet before the 5th entered the brain case. 0 -
In Any load for a large animal... Barns TSX Tripple Shock! For Sure!! 0 -
quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
A long time ago I shot a 400 pound black bear with a hand loaded 175 gr Hornady out of a bolt action 7mm Rem Mag right through the heart and lungs at about 80 yards. That bear covered about 60 yards before I put one in the same zone but from the other side. I could stick my fist compleatly through the conected exit holes. I concluded that bears are too dumb to know their dead. Whatever hand gun you carry I'd make sure that you are really good and fast at moving targets and your speed loading techniques are finely honed. Oh and by the way that bears skull turned 4 hard cast 245 gr 44 Mag hot handloads at 50 feet before the 5th entered the brain case.
Its a good anecdote, and I'll add a few points:
a. With adrenaline going, any animal (including humans) can potentially function for up to 30 seconds with NO functional heartbeat. 30 seconds is a virtual eternity when something is running towards you, let alone shooting at you, or chewing on you! Bear can run at 30 mph, by the way, and can potentially cover 100 yards in 7 seconds flat, meaning you don't get a lot of time to dilly-dally!
b. Skull of a big bear is potentially over one inch thick of dense cortical bone.
Pretty much ANY bullet that hits it will glance off if it hits at a shallow angle, including .44 magnum rounds and above. The only way you're getting through that amount of armor is with a high velocity bullet and a nearly perpendicular hit. That may not even be possible depending on which way the bears head is angled at the millisecond the round makes contact.
The point is, trying to shoot your way out of a bear charge is at best a last resort, and to succeed may take a bit of luck, as well as marksmanship!
To actually answer the question, in my opinion it doesn't make a lick of difference whether you take this .44 magnum vs. that one. If you have the choice between two or more, I'd suggest taking the one that's a. double action (because if you need it, you aren't going to want to spend time cocking it!), then b. easiest for you to carry (ie lightest/most compact), then c. one you have the most proficiency in shooting. Smith vs Anaconda? I'd take the lighter Smith.
As to .45LC. . .well, its better than a pointed stick, and there are many documented cases of bears being killed with less. If that's all you have, I wouldn't leave it at home, but if you have the ability to go bigger, you probably ought to. Pick the biggest/heaviest round your particular gun will handle.
On other choices, any of those super-magnums like .454, .500SW, .460SW, would work too, if you can handle them and tolerate carrying one.
Shotgun with slugs or short rifle would also be viable choices, though neither will be quite as portable nor fast to deploy as a handgun.
I'd say best "just in case backup" is probably another armed adult with you!
Edit:
Good story here, by the way:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=143596&an=0&page=0#Post1435960 -
quote:Just thought of one other option that's probably crazy but what about something in .45 Long Colt?
You can get 45 colt loads that will match the 44 mag I shoot the hot loads out of a s&W 460 and the recoils is mininum out of it0 -
I like them .45/70 Bush Pilot rifles Marlin makes. Cost is kind a high but they are cool. I wonder if the .500 S&W would be an improvement to the .45/70? Or them Mare's Leg would be cool, too. 0 -
After reading two books on bear attacks plus those incidents more recently making the news, I came away with the impression bears try and get the drop on you especially western Black Bears.
A shoulder holster worn on the left chest is fast and keeps the gun in place and protected when you fall while hiking in the rough.
One of the larger cal S&Ws would make more sense than a 44mag.
Take a lead from combat troops in the sandbox. Their rifles are in front of them held by a combat sling and are very fast to get into action. A tactical style shotgun with slugs would appear to give a backpacker quickest access to a proven bear killer.0
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