Winchester 1897 question

sharpshooter039

July 27, 2011 14:02

At the Tulsa show, I was looking at an early 1897 that seemed to have an original black diamond set of furniture.

Some lady from Cody was there as well, and gave it an unofficial letter indicating "Elliot Trap", but little else.

There was no matting, and the bolt was bare.

Now I'm beginning to wonder just exactly what "Elliot" had to do with anything...I know who Elliott was...

And if I missed an opportunity .....

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  sharpshooter039

  July 27, 2011 14:02

  I see some Winchester 1897's with Winchester 1897 stamped on the pump arm and some with the model stamped into the barrel. Did Winchester ever manufacturer any 1897's with the Model stamped on both the barrel and the pump arm?

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  Floyd58523

  July 27, 2011 14:29

  Can you post clear pictures of the markings on the barrel? Serial number is in the 1893 range.

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  sharpshooter039

  July 27, 2011 14:41

  I dont have it in front of me, the only pic I have of barrel markings is this one,, oldguns puts it as an 1893 made in 1897 but I know alot of people dont trust their dates
  

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  Wolf.

  July 27, 2011 17:41

  Looks like a take-down model to me. Does the SAME S/N (serial number) appear on the underside of the reciver and also just in front of it on the take-down extension? If the two serial numbers match, the gun is mostly complete.
  
  Could be a "parts gun" in the sense that worn or broken items were replaced, however, as the carrier and bolt assemblies pretty much ARE the gun (in my opinion). The Action Slide does have a tendency to break or exhibit wear at the actuating end if the gun binds up for some reason and too much force is applied to cycle the gun. So, the Action Slide may have been replaced, hence the 1897 marking.
  
  I am fairly certain that the particular Action Slide "rod" on the weapon you provided photos for is from a Win97 produced prior to 1900.
  
  Anyway, without good, clear closeups, that's about all I can offer right at the moment.

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  sharpshooter039

  July 27, 2011 18:45

  He brought it by the house,it is a 1893, It just has had a 1897 slide bar replaced on it. ,, thanks

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  Bert H.

  July 27, 2011 20:56

  The pictures clearly show that it is a solid frame gun (as it should be for a Model 1893).
  
  Serial 30400 was manufactured in November of 1896, and it is a Model 1893. The slide bar was apparently scavenged from an early production Model 1897.
  
  The barrel should be marked with the Model number and two patent dates as follows;
  
  
  "MODEL 1893. PAT.NOV.25.1890 & DEC.6.1892.""

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  cbyerly

  July 28, 2011 14:38

  It is an original early model 1897. I have one just like it.

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  Bert H.

  July 28, 2011 19:08

  quote:Originally posted by cbyerly
  It is an original early model 1897. I have one just like it.
  
  
  You are dead wrong about that[B)]. The gun in question is a late production Model 1893. The serial number and its corresponding manufacture date positively confirm that fact.
  
  For what it is worth to you, I have personally researched the Model 1893/1897 factory ledgers (held by the Cody Firearms Musuem), and the very first Model 1897 by serial number was 32910 (August 25th, 1897). The first serial number by production date (June 1st, 1897) was 34150.
  
  Again, the gun in question was manufactured nearly a full year before the Model 1897 was introduced.

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