1940 dated byf Luger..original?(NO!) PICS ADDED

MrM1A1

July 20, 2011 07:29

I have a 9mm Para byf Luger with chamber date 1940, serial number 79. All of the parts that I can find have 79 on them including barrel, finish looks all original.

I have done a bit of reading and found that byf Lugers are generally '41-'42, and haven't found anything that fits my gun's profile.

Is this configuration correct for an original gun?? I am just starting to learn about Lugers and am curious as to what exactly I have here.

What proofs should I look for and any other markings that would indicate it's originality, or otherwise?

Unfortunately I am at work and can't post pictures til tonight, but will try to do so when get home this evening.
Thank you for any help!![;)]

EDIT: Another thing, the stock lug is ground down about half way and crudely smoothed out. Was this a normal practice by troops who were issued them during the war, or was it more likely done post war??

EDIT#2: Here are the best pics I could get. Upon further inspection, and to my dismay[:(!], the numbers on the toggle and extractor are 72, not 79 like the rest of the gun.[:(] Don't ask me how I missed that...[:I]
That said, although the lug has been ground off, the finish still appears to be original, as there is absolutely no trace of finish on the lug, and the wear patterns are consistant on the front and rear strap, with the rest of the gun. Seems like if it were refinished, whoever did it would've done the whole frame, or gun for that matter.

Anyhow, I know now that it isn't all original(bummer), but it does look like original finish and aside from the toggle assy being mismatched, is a very low serial numbered gun. I also included a couple pice of the aluminum bottom magazine that came with it.

What would the correct toggle marking be for this run? I know it would be a needle in a haystack to find the correct one numbered 79, but it would be cool if I could find one....

So, what says yous guys as to approx. value??

EDIT#3: I guess I didn't realize the serial number included the "a" underneath it. Anyhow, thank you guys for all your help, I might take this one out and shoot it, always wanted to shoot a Luger.[:D]

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  rufe-snow

  July 20, 2011 07:54

  The 1940 date doesn't appear to be correct for a byf coded Luger. My reference shows that that the earlier numerical manufacturers code of "42" would have been used. Disassemble the toggle mechanism where the byf code is located to check that that it has the same serial numbers as the rest of the Luger.
  
  If it has, you either have a extremely rare Luger variation or more likely one that has been worked over by a faker. Lugers have a long history of being faked and improved dating to the mid 50's time frame, when Fred Datig then Harry Jones brought out their reference books for U.S. collectors.
  
  
  EDIT #1, In reference to the stock lug that's been ground. The Germans wouldn't have done that, even though they didn't use shoulder stocks during W W II. If you see a lug that has been either partially or completely removed, 99% chance it was done here in the U.S.. In mistaken belief that it was illegal to have a pistol that could be used with a shoulder stock.
  
  When the lug is either partially or completely removed, the grip area of the pistol would also have to be refinished. This means if the finish on the barrel and barrel extension of the Luger matches the frame, it has been completely refinished.

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  nmyers

  July 20, 2011 08:54

  I concur with Rufe-snow. The numbers on small parts are the last 2 digits of the serial number. The complete serial number will usually be a 4 digit number & a single letter suffix on the front of the frame; the same numbers, but without the letter, will usually be on the bottom of the barrel, also.
  
  
  
  Neal

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  MrM1A1

  July 20, 2011 09:35

  The serial number is just 79, only 2 digit with no prefix or suffix, and matches everywhere I can see with just a field strip. I am not knowledgable about detail stripping the Luger to get to the toggle number, but will see if I can find a tutorial somewhere.

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  perry shooter

  July 20, 2011 10:36

  I suspect you have a 1940 Pistol that started life with a toggle that was marked 42 and someone made up with substitute part of another toggle that was made later in 1941 or 1942 that is marked BYF We need detailed pictures. editWith ground stock lug necessitating refinish most all collector interest is GONE [:(]

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  Spartacus

  July 20, 2011 16:19

  quote:The serial number is just 79,
  
  the serial number on the frame and barrel (see ruffs pic) is 2 digit???????
  i've never seen a 2 digit luger. wonder if it could be a transition pistol, ie pre BYF production.
  never heard of that either, but interesting to think about.
  as far as the lug being ground off, US import and likely refinished.
  need pics to tell you more.
  tom

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  rufe-snow

  July 20, 2011 16:53

  quote:Originally posted by tplumeri
  quote:The serial number is just 79,
  
  the serial number on the frame and barrel (see ruffs pic) is 2 digit???????
  i've never seen a 2 digit luger. wonder if it could be a transition pistol, ie pre BYF production.
  never heard of that either, but interesting to think about.
  as far as the lug being ground off, US import and likely refinished.
  need pics to tell you more.
  tom
  
  
  
  German military Lugers were numbered in blocks of 9,999 pistols with a lower case letter modifier. Except first block of 9,999 wouldn't have the lower case letter.
  
  Because of this, ( two digit number without lower case letter modifier ), it would be a very, very uncommon pistol. Substantial collector value if it was factory original and hadn't had the lug mutilated and refinished.
  
  
  EDIT #1, Does have the lower case letter modifier on the frame, which is a integral part of the serial number. Since the toggle assembly is mismatched, besides being from the latter byf production, and the stock lug being ground. Don't see it having a lot of collectors value, unfortunately. As a shooter Luger $400 to $600 to the proverbial right person. Things are really soft now with shooter grade guns, due to the economy being in the toilet. Doubt it being a fast seller unless it's heavily discounted.

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  Hawk Carse

  July 20, 2011 17:44

  Looks like no 79a to me, with a replaced toggle assembly.
  
  Once upon a time, there were some gun laws stricter than they are now, hard as that may be to believe. A pistol that could even accept a shoulder stock was frowned upon. This is not the first P08 with ground off lug on the www this year. I think THINK it was the C&R program that relaxed that restriction.
  The stainless Mitchell repros have ungrooved lugs just for looks because they are not C&R and may not be stocked at all.
  
  At one time the minimum barrel length for both rifles and shotguns was 18 inches. The first wave of Swedish 1894 carbines had barrel extensions applied. The minimum for rifles was reduced to 16" to allow them and Mannlicher Schoenauer carbines in unaltered.

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