Engraved 1915 DWM Luger
I'm hoping one of the pros out there can narrow down the type or orgin of this engraving on gun and grips & holster. I understand pics are not the best,working on better resolution pics. It is a 1915 DWM,has all matching ser# except clip,has proof marks,lug,etc..its the engraving type that seems to be a mystery among those that I have shown it to, any ideas ?
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Hello It is my belief That your pistol has at one time Belonged to a person that was career Military who served in Germany during WW II where the pistol was taken as a WAR TROPHY and then this person was a member of the occupational forces in Japan . I also believe the pistol was engraved as well as the grips and leather work done at the same time in Japan. Many GI's had guns built for them in both Germany and Japan after WW II. The gun MAY have been done in Germany but It looks more like an attempt by an Asian to copy American style of engraving on the pistol and Asian style on the grips them-self. Very Striking Rig but value is as a display piece most likely very little LUGER collector interest. YMMV I will be interested in seeing what others think. 0 -
Believe PS pretty much nailed it. Not withstanding the engraving of the acorns on the frame sure doesn't look like European work, specially the incised carving on the grips. Looks like the carver started to put dragons on the grips then somebody changed his mind. Back in the mid to late forties after the war, wouldn't take much coffee and cigarets to get something like this done.
Very interesting as a decorator/conversation piece, don't seeing it have much value to a Luger collector other then being firearms curiosa as far as Lugers are concerned.0 -
Well, I like it.
I find these souvenir guns dressed up by a hungry gunsmith or engraver more interesting than one of a million issued to some army that the speculators and wheeler dealers try to make something big out of because of the inspector's stamp or something trivial.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hawk Carse
Well, I like it.
I find these souvenir guns dressed up by a hungry gunsmith or engraver more interesting than one of a million issued to some army that the speculators and wheeler dealers try to make something big out of because of the inspector's stamp or something trivial.
Ditto with Hawk and the others. While I think one should keep the weapon originial, I like the look of this Luger. Certainly no appeal to a true collector other than being an oddity, but it looks good to my old eyes. Grips look like real ivory and well done, I like the magazine treatment to go with the grips, looks reblued, and the engraving looks ok. It has a certain "style" about it that I find interesting. Someone spent some quality time making it what it is....nice "eyecandy." The holster treatment also interesting. An oddball rig for sure, but attractive IMHO.0 -
Well here's a new one I'm told. It may be possible that the gun is a "Mexican Luger" in that Germany had a substantial presence in Mexico just prior to WW1. They supported Poncho Villa's revolution or possibly both sides of the revolution, supposedly, the instability of Mexico would draw U.S. involvement (which it did w/Pershing) and keep us out of any allied effort against Germany's European takeover (which it didn't).
Lugers were presented to high ranking members of Villa's or/and the Mexican military & goverment. Engraved lugers were given or carried by only the highest ranking members of that conflict.
The "snake or serpent" on the grips are indicative of the one displayed on the Mexican flag. The cord or edge winding on the perimeter of the holster indicates American south western or Mexican style leather work.
Does any of this make sense to those familiar with Germany's involvement with Villa and the style of engraving on the gun and holster on this luger ?0 -
It might be historically plausible, but most of the guns I have seen out of Mexico are well used, even the engraved and embellished ones. This one is pristine. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by torizus
Well here's a new one I'm told. It may be possible that the gun is a "Mexican Luger" in that Germany had a substantial presence in Mexico just prior to WW1. They supported Poncho Villa's revolution or possibly both sides of the revolution, supposedly, the instability of Mexico would draw U.S. involvement (which it did w/Pershing) and keep us out of any allied effort against Germany's European takeover (which it didn't).
Lugers were presented to high ranking members of Villa's or/and the Mexican military & goverment. Engraved lugers were given or carried by only the highest ranking members of that conflict.
The "snake or serpent" on the grips are indicative of the one displayed on the Mexican flag. The cord or edge winding on the perimeter of the holster indicates American south western or Mexican style leather work.
Does any of this make sense to those familiar with Germany's involvement with Villa and the style of engraving on the gun and holster on this luger ?
This theory might be more plausible if it was a pre WW I commercial DWM Luger, rather then a dated W W I military Luger. Notwithstanding without any factual evidence supporting that it came out of Mexico, it's just a story. The 11th commandment as far as Luger collectors are concerned is that you buy it on it's merits, not on the war story that comes with it. Unless their is unequivocal documentation and providence supporting the story.
EDIT #1, Very difficult to put a value on it, as it's essentially a one of a kind piece. Don't see any hard core Luger collector putting big bucks into it though, other then it being a specimen of firearms curiosa pertaining to Lugers.
Most likely it would be attractive to a gun collector who liked flashy, fancy, guns that would be a eye catcher for the man cave. Take it to the Vegas show in January, that would IMHO be the ideal venue to find somebody would would be willing to put big bucks out for it.0 -
Thanks to all for he replys,I hope to get higher res pics but sure wish I knew how to determine a probable history or general idea of its orgins.
Well in any case, barring better pics, anyone care to take a shot at its approximate value if it was to be listed?0 -
quote:Originally posted by torizus
Well here's a new one I'm told. It may be possible that the gun is a "Mexican Luger" in that Germany had a substantial presence in Mexico just prior to WW1. They supported Poncho Villa's revolution or possibly both sides of the revolution, supposedly, the instability of Mexico would draw U.S. involvement (which it did w/Pershing) and keep us out of any allied effort against Germany's European takeover (which it didn't).
Lugers were presented to high ranking members of Villa's or/and the Mexican military & goverment. Engraved lugers were given or carried by only the highest ranking members of that conflict.
The "snake or serpent" on the grips are indicative of the one displayed on the Mexican flag. The cord or edge winding on the perimeter of the holster indicates American south western or Mexican style leather work.
Does any of this make sense to those familiar with Germany's involvement with Villa and the style of engraving on the gun and holster on this luger ?
Makes for a wonderful story but you need PROOF. Got to do the history and run the story to ground. Any photo of Villa or one of his commanders with this pistol? Any documentation of the serial numbered luger here in a shipment to Mexico? Just knowing that the Germans wanted Mexico to work with them against the US (the famous Zimmerman telegram)and supplied them with weapons is not enough. Got to establish the provenance of the weapon or you are just looking to providence for the answers. It is the gun owner's responsibility to have the proper documentation for PROOF or it is just an interesting story. Oh, by the way, my grandfather was a member of the WV NGuard and was one of the US chasers of Villa and his band of cutthroats in 1916. Good luck running the info down.0 -
I think Perry Shooter has the correct opinion of what it is. The Mexican connection seems very unlikely to me. It would probably get top dollar in Mexico today. Wonder if it is too late to get it in the US Govt's Fast and Furious export program. 0
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