How fast can I make it go? Part 2

gjshaw,

I missed the cut on your original post but I thought that there was enough additional information and potential discussion for another thread to run.

The seventeens have been around since the latter days of WWII when the .30 Carbine case was necked down to become the .17 Pee Wee. It's unfortunate demise is attributed to the lack of suitable actions for the rim and cartridge. I have run this cartridge for quite a while through a commercial Carbine. The CZ-527 in .22 Hornet can be massaged into using the Pee Wee but it takes some work.

The current velocity record for any bullet/cartridge combination is about 5200 - 5400 FPS depending on whom you speak to or worse, read on the Internet. This is one of those 'whose is bigger' contest topics in my opinion. This range has NOT been confirmed with a laboratory grade chronograph so it's really just a reference in my opinion, given the rampant inaccuracies attributed to these inexpensive timers. There are only two high grade chronographs on the consumer market currently and no individual shooters want to afford them. Businesses will own one or both because they can be an integral part of their work on a daily basis. I have both.

As far as your question is concerned, I suggest that you winnow out some of the BS offered by some who have no personal experience or true knowledge since these cartridges are specialized in design and action. First hand experience is a requirement.

Then I suggest using a good search engine to find some of the better information written by shooters who actually design, develop and shoot these tiny little bullets. You will be amazed at the broad range of cases used and the range of bullet weights available.

I have stated before that I have no compunction about burning out a barrel in order to learn something useful that will contribute to my work. I'll make or buy more. Barrels are termed 'perishable tooling' for a reason just like other tools used in a shop. They get used up and recycled or thrown away. But I will not destroy a barrel simply because I can, that's a foolish waste of a good tool.

I started my wildcat experience with the .17 Mach IV cartridge. This is the .221 Fireball necked down to accept the .17 caliber bullets. Remington has taken this cartridge out of the wildcat category and made it a commercial cartridge named the .17 Remington Fireball, appropriately enough.

Originally, we were severely limited in bullet weights and manufacturers with Hornady leading the way with their stalwart 25 grain as a standard of the industry. But Berger Bullets stepped in with a nice selection of weights and designs which really helped to ramp up the market for these cartridges. I still have a couple of thousand 15, 18, 20, 25, 30 and 37 grain bullets in my reloading 'pantry'. The 15 grain bullets will work superbly for a velocity test but sadly, they are no longer available. We used the 37 grain VLDs for shooting (competition) at 1,000 yards for a couple of years just to prove that it can be done.

Velocity records don't mean much to me but I can achieve 4600 FPS with the .17 Mach IV (Rem. Fireball) and the 15 grain Bergers. Step up to the 20 grain VMAX and I can get to 4400 FPS with top accuracy. I have been using V V N-120 powder because it burns a little cooler than the other hotshot powders. These loads fall about 9 grains less than the .20 PPC cartridge with the 20 grain VMAX.

I was already heavily committed to the .17 Mach IV on the Fireball case before I started the PCC trials so I just stuck with the FB cases after the testing was finished. In controlled shooting situations though I would opt for the PPC.

Here is a resource list to get you started:

Small Caliber Load Resources

The Sensational Seventeens by Todd Kindler. This is a must have for .17 caliber shooting enthusiasts. It contains information on the .17CCM, .17 Hornet, .17 Hebee, .17 Mach IV, .17 Javelina, .17 Remington, .17 VLR and the .17 PPC. I refer to this manual all of the time when I am loading or whatever. It is in a 3 ring binder, and I keep all of my load data in it as well as any other articles or information that I find. These can be purchased from the Woodchuck Den (see links). Todd can tell you anything that you need to know about the small calibers.

17 Caliber Shooting by Dick Saunders. Dick is an expert in the field of small caliber shooting. He has been doing it for many years and has developed a number of cartridges including one of my favorites the 17 Jet. His manual has some stories about 17 caliber shooting and then has a lot of load information on a bunch of different cartridges. This is a must have for your library if you are reading this page. Every time I talk to Dick, I learn something new about .17s. His manual lists wildcats that he developed which are probably not available anywhere else. If you are looking for an obscure .17, start here. These manuals will have to be ordered through Dick as I am unaware of any other source. His phone number is (319)927-4026. The price for his manual at this time is $18.50. His manual has data on the following calibers:
.17 Squirrel
.17 Hornet
.17 Flickertail
.17 GSG
.17 Ackley Bee
.17 Pewee
.17 Landis Woodsman
.17 Mach IV
.17/221
.17 Javelina
.17/222
.17/222 Rimmed
.17 Mijet
.17-40 Jet
.17-40 Jet Rimless
.17-32 Jet
.17 Remington

Small Caliber News. This is a quarterly publication tailored to the small calibers. Todd Kindler is the editor. I have every edition of this magazine and use them as a resource when loading a new caliber. This is the magazine that I look forward to the most out of all of the magazines that I get every month. I have had 1 article published in SCN thus far and am submitting more in the near future. The article that I had published in posted on the page and is titled "Its a Hebee". At last check, back copies were available.

Hornady manual. I have heard that this manual has load data for the .17 Remington and the .17 Mach IV. I cant confirm this as I dont have a copy of this manual yet.

Handbook for Reloaders & Shooters Vol 1 & 2 by P.O. Ackley. This is on the top of my list of resources to get. There is some information on the .17s in these as I am told.

Professional Loading and Reloading Data by George Leonard Herter. This book is supposed to contain .17 caliber reloading information but I havent confirmed to date.

Practical Reloading Manual by Nick Harvey. This book has reloading data for the .17 Ackley Hornet, .17 Ackley Bee, .17-222, .17 Mach IV, and the .17 Remington. I now have my copy of this book and must say that his load data is the most conservative out of any that I have seen. Seems to have some good information and Im glad that I have it.


Best.