H4831 & 308 Loads
Looking over my reloading supplies I find that I have a significant amount of H4831 and a lot of empty 308 cases. I use the H4831 in my 270 but wondered how it would do in the 308. No loads are listed in my reload manual, but it has a much slower burn rate than other powders listed like the IMR4895. The 4895 shows loads in the 42 gr. range if memory serves me. I have military cases and they will hold 49 gr. of the 4831. Has anyone tried to load the 308s with 4831 and if so what were the results like.
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The Old Salt, aka "crusty"[}:)][:D]
Any flavor of 4831 is going to be too slow in that case with that bullet diameter. Unless you go with the very light 110-135 gr. bullets. Otherwise you won't get enough in the case to get the bullet going fast enough to do you any good.
However, if you aren't looking for top velocity these will give you consistent loads. Somewhere between what lead loads give and better powders for this case. So, if you've got a bunch of it and don't mind shooting 150's at 2500-2600 then no problem. Use it.
Now, I say, "That case in that bullet diameter.", because as you make the hole smaller slower powders are needed and 4831 does work very well with the .243.
In summary, it's useable, it's not optimal.0 -
Wonder why it's so difficult to understand that not every powder works with every cartridge. The reloading manuals usually only list the appropriate combinations and reject those that produce inconsistant results or underachievers. 0 -
"Any flavor of 4831 is going to be too slow in that case with that bullet diameter. Unless you go with the very light 110-135 gr. bullets. "...............JUST THE OPPOSITE, THE ONLY BULLETS THAT WORK WITH ANY 4831 IN THE .308 ARE THE HEAVEY WEIGHTS, 180 GN AND UP. I DO HAVE SOME LOADS THAT WORK IN ONE OF MINE. I'LL GET BACK TO YOU.
EDIT; "I'll expand on what I said. The light bullets and slow powder gives a decent velocity. Due from an initial push and long burn time, so longer push down the barrel. "........MY SIERRA MANUAL LISTS 2400 FPS VEL. WITH THE 180 GN BULLETS AND EITHER H OR IMR 4831. MY .308 BOLT GUN GETS 2770 FPS W/ 50 GNS OF H4350. SURE YOU CAN LOAD LIGHTER BULLETS BUT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET VERY GOOD VEL. IF YOU HAVE A 'LONG' THROATED RIFLE AND CAN INCREASE O.A.L. YOU CAN IMPROVE ON THESE #'S. YOU JUST RUN OUT OF 'BOILER ROOM' WITH THE .308 CASE.0 -
As said, a heavy bullet with 4831 in a .308 is just the ticket.
I find that it gives very good accuracy in most 6.5 mm cartridges and smaller (small neck, small bore) and the 30-06 (sufficient capacity to overcome the fact that you need a LOT of the powder to get to normal 06 velocity). The .308 is in a bit of a nether world in between. If you had a .308 necked down to 6.5 or .22 caliber, it would be superb; as it is it's not optimal. With anything under 180 or 200 gr bullets you're likely to get unburnt powder and velocity under 2400 fps even if filled right to the neck.
However, sometimes the fastest load isn't the most accurate. I've had very good luck with a mild charge of 4831 in the 40 grain range and 200 gr cast lead bullets in a variety of cartridges, so it's well worth experimenting.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mobuck
Wonder why it's so difficult to understand that not every powder works with every cartridge. The reloading manuals usually only list the appropriate combinations and reject those that produce inconsistant results or underachievers.
Not everyone knows everything about handloading...bullet, and powder makers included. The powders you see listed in any given manual are the powders they tested, not all of the powders that were sufficient for the cartridge/bullet combination. As stated by sandwarrior, the H4831 will work, and give consistant velocities. Yes it is slow burning, but it has a low percentage of load density, meaning you really cant fit enough powder in the case to get all of the performance you could get.
That being said, there is not enough room in the case for great speed with a light bullet, lest you take up more space in the case with a heavier bullet?
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quote:Originally posted by MIKE WISKEY
"Any flavor of 4831 is going to be too slow in that case with that bullet diameter. Unless you go with the very light 110-135 gr. bullets. "...............JUST THE OPPOSITE, THE ONLY BULLETS THAT WORK WITH ANY 4831 IN THE .308 ARE THE HEAVEY WEIGHTS, 180 GN AND UP. I DO HAVE SOME LOADS THAT WORK IN ONE OF MINE. I'LL GET BACK TO YOU.
Mike,
I'll expand on what I said. The light bullets and slow powder gives a decent velocity. Due from an initial push and long burn time, so longer push down the barrel. {added: It won't give top velicities}
There is barely enough room in the case to push 208 and 210 bullets at speeds close to what other powders push them to. When you start to get to 220-240 gr. bullets is when the case capacity and this powder speed start to match. But, by then, you are already going pretty slow. And may want to up your cartridge case. If .308 is what you have then that is when it is the best option because it's the only option.
*reason for edits: had to leave and come back, Son going back to school.0 -
Ken Waters loaded .308 + 190 gr BT + IMR 4831.
IMR 4831 is a bit faster burning than H 4831.
Lyman shows .308 + 200 gr BT + 49.5 gr H4831 compressed load 2309 fps 42,000 CUP. Their MAXIMIMUM load probably because that was all they wanted to compress, not that the pressure was very high.0 -
The Old Salt,
Welcome to the Gunbroker Forums! (a little late...)
Reloaders often find themselves with an abundance of certain mismatched components which triggers the questions of what can be accomplished with these things even if the traditional loads are few if any?
In general, your case and powder combination will yield nothing but mediocrity and a waste of powder when used in safe proportions. Now if velocities in the range of cold molasses is acceptable for your needs then this a good combination. Be aware that a portion (nearly 20%) of the powder will be wasted in these loads. I'm a little more frugal than this.
I suggest that this a great reason to build or buy another rifle, hopefully chambered for a cartridge suited to this slow powder. Chambers could include but not limited to:
.243 Win. with hunting weight bullets
.25-06 with hunting weight bullets (ideal)
.300 Win. Mag. with hunting weight bullets
7mm WSM with intermediate hunting weight bullets (ideal)
If this isn't a possibility then consider trying to trade some of your surplus to a fellow shooter for some components that are a better combination for the cartridges you shoot.
Best.0 -
Well guys thanks for the lively discussion. At least I now know that the 4831 can safely be loaded even though the results will be less than optimal. I use the 4831 in my 270 and it consistantly produces 1+" groups at 100 yrds out of a Ruger M77 pre Mark series rifle. Since my kids got me a chronogrph I want to get to the range to clock my loads so I'll really know my ballistics. Might load up a few 308s to take along. Sounds like I can safely put as much powder into the case as it will hold and still get a bullet in it. I've got some 165 gr in the collection. Might try them. They will get shot in an FN FAL and I will report back the results. Once again, Thanks to all. 0 -
The Old Salt,
HOLD ON! I recommend you DO NOT load that combination in your FN-FAL. It is a gas operated rifle and you will have too much pressure down the barrel for the gas system to handle. You may very well break your rifle!~
Sorry for not seeing this before, but most of us assumed you had a bolt action rifle which it will work just fine in.0
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