Benelli M1 Super 90 vs Beretta 1201 FP
Hey Guys,
So, I got to wondering, is there much difference between the Beretta and the HK? Now, this is, specifically, with regards to the recoil-operated shotguns. If it's not recoil-operated, I'm guessing it's a delayed blow-back, action? Either way, this in NOT in reference to any designs, by either HK, or Beretta, that incorporate gas to cycle the action.
Anyway, I'm thinking about adding a self-defense/tactical shotgun to the mix. I think that Franchi made a gun, like the two I've mentioned, above? Well, that is, at least I think that Franchi did, at least?
If there are any others that I have missed, or, something that you guys think I should consider, please, feel free to let me know. Like, for example, I know, or believe, that HK's are more expensive than Beretta's shotguns, of this type. And, if they are of the same quality, performance, and whatever else, it'd be great to know.
Thanks, in advance. I know that you guys have a lot of information stored in your brains. [:p][:D][:D][:p] --- And, to be honest, I really appreciate the fact that you guys share it, for free. [:)]
Edit: It looks like the M1's made by Benelli. I'm not exactly sure what the association with HK, Benelli has. I thought that the gun was made by Benelli, and marketed by HK. But, at the moment, I don't know.
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out (I know I screwed up my original question) if Benelli made guns for Beretta and Franchi, as well.
I'd like to pick up something, like the Benelli M1, that doesn't cost as much as the M1. And, if the Beretta's essentially the same gun, well, you know, it might be worth pursuing. This was, essentially, the premise of my OP. But, it appears that the 1201FP's a different gun, from what I'm reading.
Now, as to what's the best gun? That's a question I'm not pursuing, at the moment. With regards to the 870, I'm sure it's a fantastic shotgun. As a matter of fact, I own one. But, I don't own one configured with a "tactical-length" barrel.
@Laredo Lefty, three? Wow, that's pretty cool.
So, I got to wondering, is there much difference between the Beretta and the HK? Now, this is, specifically, with regards to the recoil-operated shotguns. If it's not recoil-operated, I'm guessing it's a delayed blow-back, action? Either way, this in NOT in reference to any designs, by either HK, or Beretta, that incorporate gas to cycle the action.
Anyway, I'm thinking about adding a self-defense/tactical shotgun to the mix. I think that Franchi made a gun, like the two I've mentioned, above? Well, that is, at least I think that Franchi did, at least?
If there are any others that I have missed, or, something that you guys think I should consider, please, feel free to let me know. Like, for example, I know, or believe, that HK's are more expensive than Beretta's shotguns, of this type. And, if they are of the same quality, performance, and whatever else, it'd be great to know.
Thanks, in advance. I know that you guys have a lot of information stored in your brains. [:p][:D][:D][:p] --- And, to be honest, I really appreciate the fact that you guys share it, for free. [:)]
Edit: It looks like the M1's made by Benelli. I'm not exactly sure what the association with HK, Benelli has. I thought that the gun was made by Benelli, and marketed by HK. But, at the moment, I don't know.
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out (I know I screwed up my original question) if Benelli made guns for Beretta and Franchi, as well.
I'd like to pick up something, like the Benelli M1, that doesn't cost as much as the M1. And, if the Beretta's essentially the same gun, well, you know, it might be worth pursuing. This was, essentially, the premise of my OP. But, it appears that the 1201FP's a different gun, from what I'm reading.
Now, as to what's the best gun? That's a question I'm not pursuing, at the moment. With regards to the 870, I'm sure it's a fantastic shotgun. As a matter of fact, I own one. But, I don't own one configured with a "tactical-length" barrel.
@Laredo Lefty, three? Wow, that's pretty cool.
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Don't know about the HK, but I sure like my scarce factory pistol grip 1201FP [;)][:)]
Had a Franchi years ago that was a good gun.0 -
I have 3 Benelli Super 90's and 1 Beretta 1202 FP. They are both good guns. Benelli calls their guns enertia recoil operated. I know the Super 90 holds 1 more round, at least the older guns, because you can load 1 round on the elevator, 1 in the chamber and 7 in the tube.
The two guns are VERY similar but the Super 90 cycles a little quicker, probably quicker than you can pull the trigger so that may be a mute point. If the Super 90 is within your price range I would go with it, if not the 1201 will serve you well.0 -
I've never found recoil operation to be better than gas except for ease of maintenance, although inertia operation seems a little better than normal recoil operation. I think the franchi is a law-12 which is gas operated (my preference) and it's a really good gun.
If you want a self-defense/tactical shotgun I have to suggest a spas-12 it would work and it's the most fun gun I've shot, a slightly more practical option would be a fn slp. I have nothing against the Benelli or Beretta although I don't like how Benelli acts like it inertia action is so innovative.0 -
The very best Tactical/Self Defense shotgun out there today, is still the Remington 870...PERIOD. Plus, the ration of aftermarket stuff for it is unsurpassable.
However, if you think you must have a semi-automatic, then I would opt to stay away from the gas guns, and go with one from the family of Benelli's, and their inertia system. It is the most innovative system, available to the public, in the modern day era. Guess what...no gas ports to keep clear either. It has the fastest cycle rate, and is utterly reliable. Gas operated guns, can be very choosey about their diet.
So, if you are going to go with a semi-automatic, I personally would go with the Benelli(the M4 is my favorate)...any thing else is a wannabe.
Best
EDIT 1
quote:
Originally posted by spas12
quote:
Originally posted by tsr1965
The very best Tactical/Self Defense shotgun out there today, is still the Remington 870...PERIOD. Plus, the ration of aftermarket stuff for it is unsurpassable.
However, if you think you must have a semi-automatic, then I would opt to stay away from the gas guns, and go with one from the family of Benelli's, and their inertia system. It is the most innovative system, available to the public, in the modern day era. Guess what...no gas ports to keep clear either. It has the fastest cycle rate, and is utterly reliable. Gas operated guns, can be very choosey about their diet.
So, if you are going to go with a semi-automatic, I personally would go with the Benelli(the M4 is my favorate)...any thing else is a wannabe.
Best
I disagree,
The Remington 870 is a good choice but, I wouldn't say the 870 is anything special even among pumps what makes it good is all the aftermarket stuff.
Nothing at all wrong with gas op shotguns I clean mine every few boxes and don't have any problems. Now as for being choosey I have some that are supposed to only use full power loads that I've gotten to cycle light target loads while hip firing anyway there's no need to fire light loads out of a Tactical/Self Defense shotgun.
Last I heard the benelli m4 is gas operated.
Now this next part is an honest question, what makes the inertia operated system so innovative it's from the 80's and based on designs dating back to the first inertia operated shotgun which is as old as the browning auto 5.
That is totally incorrect. The inertia system is totally different than the short recoil of the Browning auto 5. Franchi copied the short recoil system of the auto-5.
Yes The M4 is gas opeated. It has a self cleaning twin piston design, that is more reliable than any other gas op semi-auto, and rivals that of the inertia systems. I would choose the M4 for fast follow up, and double taps if needed, and easier to keep on target.
As for the 870...It is STILL in the hands of more militaries, and law enforcement agencies in the world, than any other shotgun, including combining some of them. Speaks worlds about trusting a weapon. Even as bad as Big Green seems to be able to screw things up, this is one thing they have not screwed up.
Best
EDIT 2
quote:I said "as old as the auto 5", as old. I did not say "the auto 5" I am speaking of the sjogren shotgun which is as inertia operated as the benellis and since when is the auto 5 short recoil
Well, it must not have been as good as the Browning at that time, or it would have taken off, don't you think? Besides, Benelli's innovation of inertia systems, make them the FASTEST cycling semi-autos on the market today...barring none...not even their M4.
Spas12,
There is only one name in semi-auto shotguns for tactical/personal defense/LE use, and it is Benelli that stands on top. That is just the facts...sorry if you don't like to believe it, but those are the facts.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
The very best Tactical/Self Defense shotgun out there today, is still the Remington 870...PERIOD. Plus, the ration of aftermarket stuff for it is unsurpassable.
However, if you think you must have a semi-automatic, then I would opt to stay away from the gas guns, and go with one from the family of Benelli's, and their inertia system. It is the most innovative system, available to the public, in the modern day era. Guess what...no gas ports to keep clear either. It has the fastest cycle rate, and is utterly reliable. Gas operated guns, can be very choosey about their diet.
So, if you are going to go with a semi-automatic, I personally would go with the Benelli(the M4 is my favorate)...any thing else is a wannabe.
Best
I disagree,
The Remington 870 is a good choice but, I wouldn't say the 870 is anything special even among pumps what makes it good is all the aftermarket stuff.
Nothing at all wrong with gas op shotguns I clean mine every few boxes and don't have any problems. Now as for being choosey I have some that are supposed to only use full power loads that I've gotten to cycle light target loads while hip firing anyway there's no need to fire light loads out of a Tactical/Self Defense shotgun.
Last I heard the benelli m4 is gas operated.
Now this next part is an honest question, what makes the inertia operated system so innovative it's from the 80's and based on designs dating back to the first inertia operated shotgun which is as old as the browning auto 5.0 -
Design
The M4 was the first gas-operated shotgun produced by Benelli. Its function is designed around an entirely new method called the "auto regulating gas operated" (ARGO) system. The ARGO system on the M4 opened the door for Benelli's development of the R1 rifle line. The design uses two stainless-steel self-cleaning pistons located just ahead of the chamber to function opposite the rotating bolt, thereby eliminating the need for the complex mechanisms found on other gas-actuated automatics. Benelli accomplishes this level of reliability through the simplicity of the mechanism. The ARGO is a short-stroke system that incorporates only four parts. It consists of two symmetrical shrouds containing two small steel gas pistons.
It is also self-regulating for cartridges of varying length and power levels. It can fire 2.75 and 3-inch (76 mm) shells of differing power-levels without any operator adjustments and in any combination. Low-power rounds, such as less-lethal rubber pellets, must be cycled manually.0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
quote:Originally posted by spas12
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
The very best Tactical/Self Defense shotgun out there today, is still the Remington 870...PERIOD. Plus, the ration of aftermarket stuff for it is unsurpassable.
However, if you think you must have a semi-automatic, then I would opt to stay away from the gas guns, and go with one from the family of Benelli's, and their inertia system. It is the most innovative system, available to the public, in the modern day era. Guess what...no gas ports to keep clear either. It has the fastest cycle rate, and is utterly reliable. Gas operated guns, can be very choosey about their diet.
So, if you are going to go with a semi-automatic, I personally would go with the Benelli(the M4 is my favorate)...any thing else is a wannabe.
Best
I disagree,
The Remington 870 is a good choice but, I wouldn't say the 870 is anything special even among pumps what makes it good is all the aftermarket stuff.
Nothing at all wrong with gas op shotguns I clean mine every few boxes and don't have any problems. Now as for being choosey I have some that are supposed to only use full power loads that I've gotten to cycle light target loads while hip firing anyway there's no need to fire light loads out of a Tactical/Self Defense shotgun.
Last I heard the benelli m4 is gas operated.
Now this next part is an honest question, what makes the inertia operated system so innovative it's from the 80's and based on designs dating back to the first inertia operated shotgun which is as old as the browning auto 5.
That is totally incorrect. The inertia system is totally different than the short recoil of the Browning auto 5. Franchi copied the short recoil system of the auto-5.
Yes The M4 is gas opeated. It has a self cleaning twin piston design, that is more reliable than any other gas op semi-auto, and rivals that of the inertia systems. I would choose the M4 for fast follow up, and double taps if needed, and easier to keep on target.
As for the 870...It is STILL in the hands of more militaries, and law enforcement agencies in the world, than any other shotgun, including combining some of them. Speaks worlds about trusting a weapon. Even as bad as Big Green seems to be able to screw things up, this is one thing they have not screwed up.
Best
I said "as old as the auto 5", as old. I did not just say "the auto 5" I am speaking of the sjogren shotgun which is as inertia operated as the benellis and since when is the auto 5 short recoil[?]
Also while I will agree that the m4's gas system is an improvement in terms of ease of maintenance it's nothing revolutionary
quote:
Well, it must not have been as good as the Browning at that time, or it would have taken off, don't you think?
1. research indicates the sjogern failed for the same reason that most guns fail there wasn't enough of a market (many were sent to england where at the time only doubles were popular) and also some people were probably scared of a big piece of metal fly straight at their face
quote:Besides, Benelli's innovation of inertia systems, make them the FASTEST cycling semi-autos on the market today...barring none...not even their M4.
2. other than the fact that thats irrelevant in the real world I won't believe it until I see independent testing.0 -
I owned a 1201 Fp with regular stock for about 10 years I hated it. Recoil is bad with full power loads (what else would I shoot). Maybe the recoil pad was inadequite or maybe it was just to light. The rear sight was way to small for me too.
I took a big hit when I traded it off but I am glad I let it go.
Now my Benneli M2 dove gun? I love it. It has the recoil reducing stock and it is fast. I think they have a defense gun version of it.0 -
Beretta Pintails are recoil operated. I had one with a ventilated rib barrel. Stupidest thing I did was sell it to my brother so I could buy a 3 1/2" auto. They sell them in slug barrel form, good home defense or tactical gun. I saw one for sell on GB for $750 and about fell out of my chair. I bought mine for $500 wood stock in the box(field gun). 0
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