Springfield 1903 Low Numbered Reciever
Springfield 1903
Hello Fellow Gun Enthusiast,
I have come here seeking knowledge before and have been quite happy with the results. To make a long story short, I have come into the possession of a Springfield 1903 that has literally been packed with grease for over 40 years. I come looking for advice and a little possible history and to answer the age old question, is it a shooter. First off, the serial number is 72814XX, so I am aware that it was built before the heat treatment process was perfected and thus could be a problem. The barrel is marked 11-17, and their is no fowling of the barrel and it shines like a mirror. The wood is in perfect condition, and carries various rearmament initials AAL and on the bottom something and a P with a circle around it. I am by no means an expert on 1903's so I was wondering if yall could shed some light on the weapon and offer a possible value either as a collector or a shooter (touchy subject with low numbered recievers!)
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fresh1179/
Images
P.S. In the haste of my movement of my recently cleaned arsenal, I lost the floor plate spring and follower. Does anyone have suggestions on websites that offer quality replacement parts...
Thanks Again,
Winston
Hello Fellow Gun Enthusiast,
I have come here seeking knowledge before and have been quite happy with the results. To make a long story short, I have come into the possession of a Springfield 1903 that has literally been packed with grease for over 40 years. I come looking for advice and a little possible history and to answer the age old question, is it a shooter. First off, the serial number is 72814XX, so I am aware that it was built before the heat treatment process was perfected and thus could be a problem. The barrel is marked 11-17, and their is no fowling of the barrel and it shines like a mirror. The wood is in perfect condition, and carries various rearmament initials AAL and on the bottom something and a P with a circle around it. I am by no means an expert on 1903's so I was wondering if yall could shed some light on the weapon and offer a possible value either as a collector or a shooter (touchy subject with low numbered recievers!)
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/fresh1179/
Images
P.S. In the haste of my movement of my recently cleaned arsenal, I lost the floor plate spring and follower. Does anyone have suggestions on websites that offer quality replacement parts...
Thanks Again,
Winston
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The AAL signifies rebuild at Augusta Arsenal.
The two circled P's show it was proof tested when new and retested when overhauled. It retains the 1917 barrel and stock, so it could not have been in too bad shape when it went through AA.
Looks like some linseed oil applied over the stock markings, but it is hard to tell in your out of focus pictures.
I won't guess a dollar value or whether it is safe to keep shooting.0 -
You might try Gun Parts Corporation for the replacement parts. GPC is the largest gun parts dealer on the net. They have a very extensive site, with a very comprehensive on-line catalog. Note though that many of their parts are of recent manufacture, rather then original U.S. government surplus. 0 -
The bolt depicted is single heat-treated. The receiver is single heat-treated. At about SerNo 800,000, Springfield established the double heat-treat process (considered safe). At about 1,200,000*, Springfield went to full nickel (modern ordnance) steel. Both your bolt and receiver fall into the most questionable range of the three listed.
*SerNo range may be off somewhat
EDIT
andrewsw16, I checked the SerNo directly from the rifle. It's in the 700,000 range. Just a typo, so I ignored it. Best, Joe0 -
His serial number is being reported in the 7 MILLION range. Well above the 800,000. Is there some kind of confusion here? 0 -
I suggest you do a search on the gunbroker auction for the parts you need. 1903 parts show up there often. There are other forums where 1903 Springfield experts hang out but this forum's rules prohibit me from telling what they are. I would say your rifle, if complete, would sell for $600-$800 but that is a guestimate. 0 -
I have seen whether these are safe to shoot argued back and forth. I do not have a dog in this fight, but this is a C&P from the Civilian Marksmanship Program's page on the 1903 rifle:
*WARNING ON "LOW-NUMBER" SPRINGFIELDS
M1903 rifles made before February 1918 utilized receivers and bolts which were single heat-treated by a method that rendered some of them brittle and liable to fracture when fired, exposing the shooter to a risk of serious injury. It proved impossible to determine, without destructive testing, which receivers and bolts were so affected and therefore potentially dangerous.
To solve this problem, the Ordnance Department commenced double heat treatment of receivers and bolts. This was commenced at Springfield Armory at approximately serial number 800,000, and at Rock Island Arsenal at exactly serial number 285,507. All Springfields made after this change are commonly called "high number" rifles. Those Springfields made before this change are commonly called "low-number" rifles.
In view of the safety risk the Ordnance Department withdrew from active service all "low-number" Springfields. During WWII, however, the urgent need for rifles resulted in the rebuilding and reissuing of many "low-number" as well as "high-number" Springfields. The bolts from such rifles were often mixed during rebuilding, and did not necessarily remain with the original receiver.
Generally speaking, "low number" bolts can be distinguished from "high-number" bolts by the angle at which the bolt handle is bent down. All "low number" bolts have the bolt handle bent straight down, perpendicular to the axis of the bolt body. High number bolts have "swept-back" (or slightly rearward curved) bolt handles.
A few straight-bent bolts are of the double heat-treat type, but these are not easily identified, and until positively proved otherwise ANY straight-bent bolt should be assumed to be "low number". All original swept-back bolts are definitely "high number". In addition, any bolt marked "N.S." (for nickel steel) can be safely regarded as "high number" if obtained directly from CMP (beware of re-marked fakes).
CMP DOES NOT RECOMMEND FIRING ANY SPRINGFIELD RIFLE WITH A "LOW NUMBER" RECEIVER. Such rifles should be regarded as collector's items, not "shooters".
CMP ALSO DOES NOT RECOMMEND FIRING ANY SPRINGFIELD RIFLE, REGARDLESS OF SERIAL NUMBER, WITH A SINGLE HEAT-TREATed "LOW NUMBER" BOLT. SUCH BOLTS, WHILE HISTORICALLY CORRECT FOR DISPLAY WITH A RIFLE OF WWI OR EARLIER VINTAGE, MAY BE DANGEROUS TO USE FOR SHOOTING.
THE UNITED STATES ARMY GENERALLY DID NOT SERIALIZE BOLTS. DO NOT RELY ON ANY SERIAL NUMBER APPEARING ON A BOLT TO DETERMINE WHETHER SUCH BOLT IS "HIGH NUMBER" OR "LOW NUMBER".0 -
Yea I apologize for the extra X in my original document, it is a 700,000 level serial number receiver. It is also important (and I forgot to mention) that the stock is marked SA DAL which according to my mediocre knowledge, could mean that it was rebuilt by Springfield Armory. Does that mean that the low numbered receiver was subjected to other stress test, or possibly certified safe by Springfield. I am probably not going to shoot the weapon anyways, but it is interesting to here the educated opinions on this forum.
Thanks for the Replies,
Winston
Sorry about the quality of the photos, I was using my iphone, also thanks for the site with the parts, it is very extensive...0 -
"Does that mean that the low numbered receiver was subjected to other stress test, or possibly certified safe by Springfield. I am probably not going to shoot the weapon anyways, but it is interesting to here the educated opinions on this forum.".......UNFORTUNETLY NO, that said there were <20 reported cases of receivers 'letting go' prior to ww2 and most of those were with a questionable lot of ammo (out of over one million rifles in the affected ser. # range). I shoot mine with m-2 ball ammo. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Fresh1179
Yea I apologize for the extra X in my original document, it is a 700,000 level serial number receiver. It is also important (and I forgot to mention) that the stock is marked SA DAL which according to my mediocre knowledge, could mean that it was rebuilt by Springfield Armory. Does that mean that the low numbered receiver was subjected to other stress test, or possibly certified safe by Springfield. I am probably not going to shoot the weapon anyways, but it is interesting to here the educated opinions on this forum.
Thanks for the Replies,
Winston
Sorry about the quality of the photos, I was using my iphone, also thanks for the site with the parts, it is very extensive...
Item in blue, above..
You will never encounter a receiver/bolt that has been subjected to the test, whether it has passed, or failed.
You see, the technique used in making the determination (safe, or otherwise) must result in the destruction of the object being tested.
So, and with that said (paired with my post further up this string), you are in posession of a rifle that has not been, and never will be, tested.
All we can do is to try and relate the [known] info, to the best of our capability.
Joe0 -
I don't know what is meant by "stress test" but each and every Springfield was proof tested when built. I think they were retested when overhauled but my book on the subject is gone. So it withstood 70,000 CUP once and maybe twice. That does not make it positively safe to use. A number of these actions have been broken by being dropped on a concrete floor or hit with a hammer. A casehead separation would cause catastrophic failure in your hands.
I know what P.O. Ackley said and what Julian Hatcher said and what the USMC did, but we are more cautious now. I would not consider this one a shooter.0 -
Dear All,
I appreciate the opinions and the replies, don't think I'll be bringing this one to the range.
Once Again Thank Yall,
Winston0
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