Heavy Bullets in the 257 Roberts?
Has anyone tried heavy bullets in the 257 Roberts (140gr)
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125's 0 -
I have not, BUT
You might want to check out your Bbl's. twist rate before you go to far. They may not stabalize. HAWKSHAW0 -
My .257 does not shoot 115 and up well at all. With 100 grain flat base or boattail, it's as good as the low power optics will allow. I really wanted it to shoot the Hornady lite mags but that didn't happen. I'd say you need a fast twist barrel for anything that heavy. 0 -
What twist would I be looking for? 0 -
"What twist would I be looking for?"..........1/8, 1/9 0 -
You would need at least a 1-8" twist to stabilize the 140/142 gr. (length) bullets.
Originally, it was intended that the 115 VLD type bullets were to be 120 gr. with a little more length. After figuring a bit they had to cut the length back and make them 115 gr. They just would not remain stable at the extreme ranges intended.
I was shooting some Wildcat 142's from a .257 Roberts, .25 WSSM and .257 Wby. None would stabilize from a 1-10 barrel, but I did see some, what I felt anyways, impressive velocities for that heavy of a bullet out of a .25 Cal.0 -
I have used 117 and 120 grain bullets from my 722 Remington with 1/10 twist. Have had good results. I load all heavy bullets to +p. It is still rather conservative per modern standards.
The 120 Grain Speer BTSP shot very well. IN the VLD, I would guess that Berger's 115 is max.0 -
My two 1/10 twist barrels both like Speer 120's. Who makes 140 and what would you want them for? Nice weight in 7mm but they don't interest me in the 'Bob. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by RCrosby
My two 1/10 twist barrels both like Speer 120's. Who makes 140 and what would you want them for? Nice weight in 7mm but they don't interest me in the 'Bob.
They may not interest you , but they do me. I'm not always sure why but it sure seems with some calibers and bullets, changing from the norm seems a difficult thing to do. Change always comes from those involved in serious competition, not the mainstream. And, FWIW, 140 is light in 7mm. I shoot 168's/175's/180's in competition in that caliber. 140 gr. is standard competition weight in the 6.5mm's. And, while I'm not trying to chastise you, it's the "I don't see it/need it," mentality that keeps great things from happening in that caliber. Great things have happened in other calibers which we have adopted because there are those out there who have taken good ideas and improved upon them, and have then proven they will work. Mostly through competitions. Now we have some great bullets and the right twists to use them with. We don't have that in .257 caliber. Also, the 'Bob' (or as I like to say, "I'm a 'Roberts' man") is certainly capable of 1000 yard shooting. It would only get better with better bullets in that caliber.
Wildcat Bullets out of Canada was making them (142's). Richard Graves was the proprietor's name. He sold the business to a guy in Elko, Nevada. I've yet to see a .257 cal bullet yet from them. They are currently focusing on the 200 gr. 7mm. Which of course also takes a radical twist even for 7mm.0 -
SW,
"Who makes them, and what would you want them for?"
2 questions.
Thanks for the 2 answers.
Didn't mean to imply there was no reason or need. That it can be done is reason enough. Just throwing in my 2 cents.
Difference of opinion. Isn't that what they say makes horse races?
No harm. No foul.
Happy Trails,
[:D][:D]0 -
quote:Originally posted by RCrosby
SW,
"Who makes them, and what would you want them for?"
2 questions.
Thanks for the 2 answers.
Didn't mean to imply there was no reason or need. That it can be done is reason enough. Just throwing in my 2 cents.
Difference of opinion. Isn't that what they say makes horse races?
No harm. No foul.
Happy Trails,
[:D][:D]
RCrosby,
My apologies too if I seem to come across with a bit of an edge with my response.
You and I both love the .257 Roberts, aka THE 'Bob'. Sometimes when I write about it, I let the frustration show that I have with my dad. He has one and no matter what, it seems, He seems to think it likes the 87 gr. Sierra's over 41 gr. of 4895. In the past we used either/or. Now, I've got him using the H4895 Extreme. Anyhow, I've shown him his rifle does better with 100 gr. Spitzers. I even loaded up some 95 gr. MEF's I brought out to NV for just the occasion. It liked those REALLY well. Of course loading technique has gotten much better since I left the farm, too... The groups showed that. So, what did he do? Went to town and bought a box of 87 gr. Sierra varminters. IT being what it was, I decided to not even attempt to see if the 115's would stabilize out of his rifle.
In all honesty, the 'Bob' is about all you would ever need from a hunting rifle. I killed an elk with a 100 gr. GK. A perfect sneak and a perfect shot resulted in an immediate drop. It's that way with a lot of cartridges. It just seems you get all the power you need with a .257 Rob. without getting walloped. Easier to put bullets in the right hole that way.0 -
travis3,
Sorry I'm late to the party but my work load has gone up exponentially and I don't get much time to provide information as I once did.
sandwarrior and I have gone 'round and 'round with several .25 caliber conversations over the last few years. Most of these focus on performance and data accumulated through testing and hunting. However, we did exchange information on the Wildcat bullets he mentions in his posts here.
I was having fun testing some of the longer/heavier for caliber bullets coming out of Richard's shop in Canada. So I shared some of that information with sandwarrior who obviously got some of his own to try. As hard as Richard tried, bullet making didn't mix well with full-time farming, especially when you gained notoriety. So he sold the bullet business to some other folks who have diddled around and can't seem to gain any substantial traction with the variety of bullets that Richard did working just part-time. So it goes. I have a lengthy e-mail into them to try to get some updated information and try to get some bullets to work with once again.
Twist Rate:
All of the original bullets for the 25 caliber will be stable in a 1:10" twist rate given standard velocities. Most of the varmint weight (lighter) bullets will work well in a 1:12" twist. Some of the older .257 Roberts rifles came in 1:12" twist for this reason. And we are all aware of the .250 Savage barrels with a 1:14" twist...
But these new longer/heavier/RBT (VLD) bullets need a tad more to get them spinning properly. I have an advantage in this area because I can get any barrel/twist combination I need and I can make whatever type of rifle necessary to test these bullets with a particular twist rate. The numbers for these bullets are easy; you need a 1:9" twist minimum at top end velocities attainable for the .257 Roberts. Better would be a 1:8.5" just in case the higher velocities don't provide the accuracy node desired for your shooting. My testing with the .257 Roberts used a 1:8.8" because that's what my math determined for my circumstances and components. The velocity range ran from 2750 to a pinch over 2900 FPS during tests. The bullet holes were round from 100 yards to 600 yards which I figured was good enough for a hunting bullet.
The next step is trickier now that I have the dies and equipment to make .25 caliber bullets for my testing. But the down side is the bullet jackets. The longest ones available commercially as .25 caliber (untrimmed) are from Sierra and they are fine for most applications although I think mine will need to be a bit tougher. So the option is to use 6.5mm jackets and reduce them slightly for the .25 caliber bullets.
Anyway, the 140 grain class bullets for the .25 caliber cartridges is not for everyone nor are they necessary. All of us can 'make do' with the 115, 117 and 120 grain commercial bullets available on a daily basis. Read sandwarrior's account. But those of us who thrive on shooting the .25-06 AI, Condor, Souper, Weatherby or STW could use a bit more weight and length to get the most from these larger capacity cartridges. Unfortunately, the decision makers at the commercial manufacturers seem to be blind to the .25 caliber fans but are willing to throw all sorts of money at the 6.5mm, 7mm, .30 cal. and the .338 bullet development. Not even a penny for the .25 caliber...
Best.0
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