Hornady 87 gr. SPs in 250 Savage
I have a Model 99 Savage in 250 Savage caliber. With a load of 33 grs. H380 and Remington 86 gr. SPs it will consistently shoot 5 shot 50 yard groups of 1" or under.
When I ran out of the Remington bullets I tried the Hornady #2530 87 gr. SP with the same 33 gr. Load of H380.
What I got was slightly higher velocity ( a little under 2650 fps compared to just under 2600 with the Remington bullets) and 2" groups.
I know this gun has a slow twist that makes it difficult to get good accuracy with long, heavy bullets (e.g. 117 gr.).
I thought the problem might be that the longer, more pointed Hornady bullets required a higher velocity to be properly stabilized.
I increased the powder charge to 34 grs. This got the velocity up to over 2700 - and gave even larger groups.
I continued to increase the powder charge in 1 gr. increments up to 37 grs. (the maximum load in my Hornady manual). At that point the velocity was up to just under 2900 - with "groups" in excess of 4".
Then I tried going the other way. With a 32 gr. load the velocity dropped to just under 2500 and the group improved to about 1 ? ".
31 grs. produced just over 2400 fps and again about 1 ? " groups.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
When I ran out of the Remington bullets I tried the Hornady #2530 87 gr. SP with the same 33 gr. Load of H380.
What I got was slightly higher velocity ( a little under 2650 fps compared to just under 2600 with the Remington bullets) and 2" groups.
I know this gun has a slow twist that makes it difficult to get good accuracy with long, heavy bullets (e.g. 117 gr.).
I thought the problem might be that the longer, more pointed Hornady bullets required a higher velocity to be properly stabilized.
I increased the powder charge to 34 grs. This got the velocity up to over 2700 - and gave even larger groups.
I continued to increase the powder charge in 1 gr. increments up to 37 grs. (the maximum load in my Hornady manual). At that point the velocity was up to just under 2900 - with "groups" in excess of 4".
Then I tried going the other way. With a 32 gr. load the velocity dropped to just under 2500 and the group improved to about 1 ? ".
31 grs. produced just over 2400 fps and again about 1 ? " groups.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.
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Have you adjusted the seating debth to the new bullets? My guess is the longer bullet is seated deeper and the ogive is contacting the rifleing after the bullet has traveled too far. 0 -
I have seven rifles in .250 Savage but no model 99's. While I haven't measured the twist, three of them are pre-war vintage so I am guessing they have the slow 1-14" twist. In my Savage model 40, like you, I got good groups with the 87 gr. Remington PLHP bullet but I can't find that bullet any more. I was using IMR4320 with that bullet and getting 3048 fps. I tried the 100 gr Speer HP with 35.5 gr. of IMR4895 and got good groups @ 2865 fps. I would think that would make a good deer load. Another load that gives me outstanding results is the 75 gr. Hornady V-max with 37 gr. of W748 @ 2907 fps. That 75 gr. Hornady load does almost as well in my Savage model 1920. The velocity is a little higher in the model 1920 @3020 fps. I hope my experimenting helps you and good luck with your rifle. 0 -
I have a Savage 99 with the slow twist. I have loaded both the Hornady 87gr SP and the 87gr Speer Hot Cor. In my rifle the Hornady shot just a little better. Both were under 2" at 100 yards, But I was using RL-15 and getting right at 3000fps.
Also, I could load mine so the bullets were barely in the neck and still not touch the rifling. So I went with book length and it was okay.0 -
Try using RE-17 or H4350 and work those loads up. I'm thinking what you are getting is bad harmonics (barrel whip) from the faster powder. Slow that powder down some and you may be able to increase your speed by getting the longer burn, but not quite the jolt of the faster powder. If that makes any sense.
My Savage 99 certainly isn't the best when it comes to super tight groups but, will shoot an inch and a half @ 100 with 37 gr. of VV N140 behind a Sierra or Nosler 85/87gr. bullet. Seems to me the Hornady spire points did okay, but for the same price I opted for what shot the best, Nosler BT's and Sierra Varminter 87's and 90 gr. Gamekings (HPBT).
Edit:
My Savage is a 1915 with the 1-14" twist. So, I'm pretty much limited to 60's-90's.0 -
Thanks to everyone for the info and suggestions.
The loads I had tried were loaded to a COL of 2.435". I have now tried some with 31 grs. and some with 33 grs. loaded to a COL of 2.500. In both cases the groups were worse than the same loads at 2.435".
I also tried cleaning the bore. This did not seem to have any noticeable effect on group size.
As for "barrel harmonics", I tried powder charges from 31 to 37 grs. in 1 gr. increments, giving me velocities from just over 2400 fps to just under 2900 fps. If this was the problem should I not have found a "good" spot somewhere in this range ?
I still have a few of these bullets left so I will try some more experimenting. I have some other powders (H4831, IMR3031, IMR4895) that should also work so I may give them a try.
As always, any comments or suggestions are very welcome.0 -
First, an observation or two: There is absolutely nothing magic about one-inch groups; nor is there any animal larger than a rat that would be missed by a two-inch group. I'd be content if the Hornady bullet hit to the same point of impact at roughly the same velocity.
However, if you are not content with anything over an inch, you may have some experimenting to do. You'll have to pick whether you begin with a different powder or a different bullet, and work with that choice alone until you are happy or can't get it to work. If you change more than one component at a time, you will have no idea what causes what, or what to eliminate from further tests.0 -
rhope,
Of the powders you mentioned I would try the IMR3031 and the IMR4895. The 4831 is too slow, I think, for that combination.
As you said too, you used to get better accuracy from the Remington bullets. You might also go looking for another kind of bullet that gives you the accuracy you like, rather than stick with the Hornady. No sense in wasting time, powder and more bullet money for something that isn't going to shoot for you.
And, FWIW, the Savage 99 was designed in 1893. It gave outstanding accuracy for it's day. And, during it's lifetime improvements to that accuracy were made along the way. But, to my knowledge it never was touted as a sub- or even moa rifle. That kind of accuracy didn't become consistent off the shelf until the 1980's, maybe even the 1990's. After manufacture of the Savage 99 ceased (1983). But, it always held 'good' accuracy from a fast repeating 'high pressure' rifle. To find one that gives the accuracy yours does is kind of rare. Cartainly appreciated when you get one, though. So my advice is to look around for a different bullet and powder and see what will work best in your rifle. It may cost a bit more, but we've all been through that in the last 5-10 years.0
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