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Winchester 1886 in .40-70 WCF

pzoba
Hi,

I've recently inherited a very good condition 1886 in .40-70 WCF. With it, I also got about 50-60 rounds of ammo in original but poor condition boxes, reloadable brass, bullets and reloading dies.

Anyone have any reloading data for this gun? My old Lymann books don't have anything on the .40-70 WCF.

Any estimate on value? I suspect that it has been reblued somewhere along the way because the condition is too good otherwise.

Thanks for any info/help on this one...

Paul
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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • rufe-snow
    It would best for accurate identification and valuation if you could post quality photos. Instructions for posting photos at this link.

    http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=259294

    The Book "Cartridges of the World" has a couple of loads for the 40-70. Apparently it wasn't a very popular cartridge.
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  • Bert H.
    Hello,

    There were fewer than (700) Model 1886s made in 40-70 W.C.F. (introduced in April of 1894).

    The rifling twist rate is set-up for a 330-grain bullet. I prefer IMR 4198, and 24-grains is a good starting point. If you use a lighter weight bullet, you will need to add a few grains of powder.
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  • pzoba
    Thanks for the input guys. I'll have to get a copy of Cartridges of the World.

    I'm surprised by the IMR suggestion. I had thought all the loads for this would use Pyrodex. By Dad's notes on the box, it looks like he used Pyrodex on his reloads. This was originally a blackpowder cartridge wasn't it?

    I have not ever worked with black powder or pyrodex. I am an experienced reloader for shotgun, rifle and pistol (~30-40K rounds loaded) but all with modern powders. (2) RL 550B's, MEC's, etc...
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by pzoba
    Thanks for the input guys. I'll have to get a copy of Cartridges of the World.

    I'm surprised by the IMR suggestion. I had thought all the loads for this would use Pyrodex. By Dad's notes on the box, it looks like he used Pyrodex on his reloads. This was originally a blackpowder cartridge wasn't it?

    I have not ever worked with black powder or pyrodex. I am an experienced reloader for shotgun, rifle and pistol (~30-40K rounds loaded) but all with modern powders. (2) RL 550B's, MEC's, etc...





    The Model 1886 Winchester has a very hardy mechanism. It's common to load relatively low pressure smokeless loads for it. Instead of the the original BP loads. As long as your careful and use the correct burning rate powders, you will be OK. As long as the rifle is factory original in Very Good condition and locks up tight, you have have nothing to worry about.
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  • Bert H.
    IMR 4198 is superb low pressure smokeless powder. It has been used for decades as a safe alternative to load the old black powder cartridges.
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  • 426crown
    Paul--I just got a Octagon 40-70, Is your's an octagon or round? Have you shot it? Trying to find a source for smokeless rounds, so I can shoot mine and then clean it--Thanks Bill
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  • pzoba
    Bill,

    Mine is half octagon. What is your serial number?

    I have not shot it yet but I do have some smokeless loads for it now. I am going to reload for this and have the dies...

    Best - Paul
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  • 426crown
    Paul have 13 model 1886 and shot all but the 40-70--ammo on Back Order. Mine was made in 1894 serial 84415. I collect Octagon barrel, crescent butt plate only-except for the 33WCF Take-down--only made in round. Can I buy 5 rounds of 40-70WCF from you? you can email to xwdsxsunvalley@aol.com--thanks Bill
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  • XXCross
    Have any of you concidered the use of IMR 4759 as the powder of choice ? It works well in all of the older straight walled as well as bottle neck cartridges.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by XXCross

    Have any of you concidered the use of IMR 4759 as the powder of choice ? It works well in all of the older straight walled as well as bottle neck cartridges.


    There is relatively little difference between IMR 4198 and 4759 (the latter is just a bit faster burning). Both can be used in most of the old black powder cartridges. For IMR 4198, a good starting point is 40% of the black powder number (e.g. 45-70 = 28-grains of 4198, 40-90 Sharps Straight = 36-grains, etc.).
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  • charliemeyer007
    +1 for pic's please. I'd love to see it. I might even have a factory round left from dad's oddball collection.
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