Kwik Kali handgun legal question.....
Invited an acquaintance of mine that has a shop next to mine that a few of us were gonna go out to the gun range tomorrow that I'm a member of. He appreciated it but had to decline due to a prior obligation. However, he did offer me the use of his near new 9mm Taurus P99 that he bought used about 6 years ago. Which was pretty nice of him....except for the fact that the only magazine he has for it holds 13 or 14 rounds. Which is a no-no here in Kalifornia. When I pointed this out to him he told me that he wasn't aware of the ten round magazine max law we have here until a few months later. For some reason or another the FFL guy who did the transfer either didn't know, or didn't care. Hmmmm.
Anyways, my question is would I be taking a chance of getting in trouble if I got caught with this thing in my truck on the way to & from the range? Would having his receipt/paperwork with me help at all? Or should I just pass on the offer?......
Gracias,
EM
Anyways, my question is would I be taking a chance of getting in trouble if I got caught with this thing in my truck on the way to & from the range? Would having his receipt/paperwork with me help at all? Or should I just pass on the offer?......
Gracias,
EM
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Can you get in trouble? Yes. Can the "lender" get in trouble for lending the hi-cap mag? Yes. Is it likely? No, but it still can happen.
The choice to borrow the gun with the hi-cap mag is , of course, up to you. If you have, or can get, 10 round mags for the gun (Beretta 92 copy with adjustable sights, I believe Beretta amgs would work)there is no issue.
Here is the shortened version of the important parts of the law:
PC 12020 (a)(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes
to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or
offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-
capacity magazine.
PC 12020 (c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity
magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity
to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to
include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so
that itcannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.
And a note on possession of pre-ban mags:
Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to
accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before
January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1,
2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale,
expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in
California except by law enforcement agencies, California
peace officers, or licensed dealers.
Hopefully you can get a cheapo 10 rounder and have some fun with zero worries.0 -
Magazines holding more than 10 rounds which were in the CA prior to 2000 are perfectly legal to own and possess, they are not banned. There are only three ways to determine that a magazine may be in CA after the cut off date:
1) You tell someone "I bought this magazine after the cut off date".
2) It is in a handgun model which did not in fact exist until after 2000.
3) The magazine is date-coded as 2000 or later or has the old Crime Bill restricted LEO marking on it. From 1994-2004 all new production hi-cap magazines in the USA were restricted so unless you are a dealer or a cop there would have been no way for a civilian to have legally purchased a restricted magazine in CA, even prior to 2000.0 -
I think it should be noted that possession of +10 round capacity magazines - even those manufactured after Jan 2000 - is not specifically prohibited in the CA law. Possession however could lead to the question "well, how did you get it?" and that can result in an answer that may cause difficulty. The method of aquisition is the violation.
CA law allows legally owned +10 round magazines to be rebuilt and parts replaced. A 1990 made Beretta 92 magazine body may be replaced with a new manufacture or even one that reads "For LE Use Only" if the rebuild body used happened to be made 1994 to 2004.
Statute of limitations also applies. If a CA resident purchased a +10 round magazine for their "was made after 2000" handgun in 2002 for example and could prove it the statute of limitations took effect in 2005. Of course getting to the "prove it part" can be expensive I suppose.
The problem with the CA "hi cap ban" is that it is not a ban per se. It is a set of complicated restrictions that can be legally compromised and as already mentioned depends in part on the veracity of the gun owner.
I'd pose a hypothetical question regarding how the CA law can be a challenge: I was at the range last weekend with my M1A Scout. I have about 30 +10 round magazines. One of them wasn't functioning properly so a bit irritated I tossed it in the garbage. A short while later I went back to get rid of paper garbage and noticed the magazine was gone - presumably picked up by another shooter. What CA law, if any, was broken? I wouldn't "know" how to answer and there would probably be answers given from no law broken to two people broke a law.
As an aside, I don't hold much to the creative "I found it under a couch" methods some folks may offer regarding how they got +10 round magazines. Although slight the police still do ask questions on occasion or poke about for answers. The way the law is written, the absence of possession being specifically prohibited while understandable does make this law complicated, difficult to enforce and subject to abuse, interpretation or misunderstanding on both sides of the law.0 -
Thanx for clearing that up, Gents, y'all rock. I'll check out his receipt/transfer date papers tomorrow morning and see exactly when he bought it and if it's 'legal'. If not, oh well, got plenty of other stuff to plink with tomorrow. Last thing in the world I need is to get caught with something that's illegal....given that I haven't even had a moving violation since '88........[:D] 0 -
I've had both pistols & the mag catch slot is not in the same position on Beretta & Taurus mags. Supposedly, one will work in the other, but not without filing the cut-out slot. 0 -
What is this Kalifornia place you speak of? It it even part of America? Sounds like a fascist Police State to me. 0 -
Alright, quick update----talked to my friend this morning and got some more info on this Taurus. Seems he bought it just 3 years ago from a private party in Central California, and did the FFL stuff/transfer at an olde school yet(supposedly?) licensed Mom & Pop gun store. So it seems to me that someone dropped the ball right then and there. My friend is also now firmly aware that there is a possibility of getting in trouble if he is caught with this 14 round mag in his Taurus at either a gun range, or driving, or whatever. Additionally I threw out the possible scenario that if he ever has to drop a bad guy in his home or on his business property that some Kali Anti D/A may wanna get a little creative and see what kind of havoc they could wreak on his life. After taking that all into consideration he has now decided to ship his three mags (the 14 and the two 19's) up to the unnamed North West that he is moving to next year and has asked me to source out three Kali legal 10 rounders that will hold him over and keep him legally safe here in the interim period.
So once again, thanx for the advice, Gents......[:D]0
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