Federal gun records
I know that there are a lot of smart people out there,so I will pose a few questions that I have been pondering.Are all gun manufacturers required to provide the federal government with a copy of all serial numbers of guns they have made? What kind of other information does the government require of makers? Can one legally change the serial number of a gun? What is required to do it? How long has the federal government required gun manufacturers to provide them with the serial numbers and other information? Is their a data base where this information is stored? How does a person access this data base? How far back does it go? Thanks in advance for your responses
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quote:Originally posted by commissioner
I know that there are a lot of smart people out there,so I will pose a few questions that I have been pondering.Are all gun manufacturers required to provide the federal government with a copy of all serial numbers of guns they have made?
NO. Except when a manufacturer is putting another manufacturer's name on a receiver, under a "marking variance."
What kind of other information does the government require of makers?
Two types of annual records are kept by a manufacturer, one is a yearly production number, and the other is a yearly or quarterly filing for Excise Tax purposes on COMPLETE firearms "introduced into commerce".
Can one legally change the serial number of a gun?
No. Not that I'm aware of.
What is required to do it? How long has the federal government required gun manufacturers to provide them with the serial numbers and other information?
Yearly, just a cumulative number, not serial numbers.
Is their a data base where this information is stored?
No, it's forbidden under Federal Law.
How does a person access this data base? How far back does it go? Thanks in advance for your responses0 -
Not sure about all of your questions, just some. It is a federal crime to alter or obliterate an existing serial number. So there goes your plan to change it. However, if the number is "accidentally" changed or destroyed, you can take it to your nearest BATFE office, show it to them, and they will issue the paperwork for you to have the old number restamped, if known, or a new number stamped if the old one isn't known. But, then, you are back to square one, with the feds knowing your serial number. The best way to own a gun that is "off the books" is to buy one from a private seller instead of a dealer. In most states, no record of that sale is required, so there is no paper trail. [:D] 0 -
Firearms are the most highly regulated consumer products in the US. All manufacturers are required to keep records of every gun they make, plus the name & address/FFL # of the recipient. Every distributor keeps similar information. Every dealer does too; in this case, they record the buyer information on a Form 4473, which is maintained by the dealer but turned in to ATF when the business closes. Only a manufacturer can change a SN, & that can be done when a firearm is "remanufactured"; of course, records are maintained. Importers must assign a SN if the firearms does not have an arabic SN; e.g., Russian SN's have cyrillic markings.
There is no "data base", although I would assume that there is an ATF data base with Form 4473 information.
All SN searches are done by the ATF Firearms Tracing Section, & their work is primarily checking paper records, which is why they only rarely find useful information. There is only limited information prior to 1968. The federal government is prohibited by law from maintaining a data base of firearms owners; state/local agencies can do what they want.
Neal0 -
At this point there is no evidence that there is a federal registry of 4473s.
CP0 -
As has been stated, it is a crime to alter, or obliterate a serial number, so that is a no-no.
I am sure manufacturers keep serial number lists, and to where those serial numbers were sold. No different than a FFl dealer's log book, so to speak. If a particular weapon turns up in a crime, a call to the manufacturer, can tell, to what distributor that it was sold to...then a call is placed to the distributor, to find out what FFL it was sold to.
Although, no federal data base containing all the serial numbers has been established, any firearm since 1968 has been tracable from the factory to the first original end user, or the first person to fill out a 4473 form on it.
I don't believe it is a requirement for the manufacturers to hand over annually, the list of serial numbers, but do believe it is required for the manufacturer's to keep a list, just like a FFL in a log book.
As an example, if you look at some of the threads at the top of this forum, concerning the Winchester 1894, and quite a few other Winchesters(Thank you Bert H, and Mr.Kennedy), you can see some data, that was partly acquired from survey's, in conjunction with FACTORY polishing room ledger's.
Hope this clears som things up Mr/s.Commissioner.
Best0 -
I've been involved in the closing of 2 FFL's due to the death of the licensed individual. Each time, (NJ &) the Feds wanted the books & 4473's. They informed me that they would scan the documents & compile permanent lists of transfers of the firearms for "tracing" purposes. 0 -
Ooops....there was this fire...
The previous owner stored the records poorly and the shed burned down. [:D] Can't prosecute the dead guy. [:p]0 -
When I stopped selling guns all my 4473's and bound books were shipped off to the ATF there was no E back then. Never heard a word since. 0
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