458 Winchester and Safari Gun Experts
Has anyone had any experience using any of the models listed below or have another suggestion besides these listed. I will be purchasing a rifle in the 458 Winchester caliber specifically. I already own a 404 Jeffery and 375 H&H magnum so I am not new to the big game rifles. Just looking for some additional opinions. I don't find too many gun reviews in the larger calibers. Thanks for the info in advance.
Remington model 700 BDL Safari
Remington 798
CZ 550
Winchester 70 Safari Express
Remington model 700 BDL Safari
Remington 798
CZ 550
Winchester 70 Safari Express
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My choice would be CZ, Md 70, 700 and 798, in that order. Thje CZ's are pretty monolithic in my view. I would, for whatever it is worth, reccomend you look at the 458 Lott. In a pinch., you can use 458 Win Mag ammo in it, thus really freeing up some possibilities for back up ammo supply when on the dark continent. Additionally the 458 Lott does not have the bad hot weather reputation the Winchester definatly does. Just one guys opinion. 0 -
The Lott is longer (2.8 in vs 2.5 in) and more powerful than the Winchester round, and was brought about when lack-of-penetration issues with the 2,150 +/- fps of the 500 gr bullet of the .458 Winchester almost killed some folks. The Lott runs about 2,300 fps +/- with the 500 gr, so it makes for more energy on BOTH ends of the gun (roughly 5,900 energy vs 5,000). Yes indeed, you can shoot the very common Winchester in the Lott if you lose your Lott rounds in transit, like the .357/.38 special etc... which does make it more versatile when the biggest animals are on the docket.
Ruger also catalogs the Lott.
Whatever you choose; Win mag or Lott, I hope you get to take it to Africa and have fun with it!0 -
You might want to add the Ruger M77 African rifle to your list. A buddy of mine had one in 416Rigby and it was real nice. I'm sure that I have seen that it comes in the 458winmag and 458 lott chamberings also. His sported a high figure Turkish walnut stock, quarter rib with folding sights, barrel sling mount and banded front sight all factory. It was a load but it sure shot well.... 0 -
If you are going with a chambering like that, it has to be somethking dangerous. I would leave the Remington 700 right off the list. I would want something with controled round feed if it were not going to be a double rifle.
I would take the Winchester 70 CLASSIC, then the Remington 798, then the CZ 550. Which ever one fits you better. The CZ could very well be the front runner too, as they are VERY well made rifles.
Best
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KYD,
The 798 is not a new design. It is a Mark x Mauser action if I am not mistaken. The rifle was previously imported as Charles Daly brand, possibly by Interarms?
The pressure argument in this situation is kind of moot. Yes, it does develop the pressures, but it has a big bore, and lots of volume to relieve them quicker too. Just depends on how slow the powder burn rate is. If you had that kind of case capacity bleeding its pressure off thru a 17, or 22 caliber tube, then it would be more of a concern...to me anyway.
Best0 -
The controled feed issue is indeed highly debated, and I think the majority of experts and P.H.'s in Africa prefer it greatly; I should likely invert the 700 and 798 in my list. I have not seen or heard overwhelmingly rosy tings about the 798's truth be told. Comments vary from I like it to the fit and finish and smoothness of aciton leave something to be desired. I have only fired one in the .375 H & H chambering and was less than impressed. The 375 is notorious for being tough to get the feed rails right for in a "new" design...pretty long and that darn belt. Anyway. three different types of factory ammo and one handload with a Leupold 2-7 and the best we could get was "2 1/2 (Speer handload). Worst was a sad "5. So not real impressed I guess. They were near the bottom of my list anyway!
Also, as memory serves, the Lott was designed with the longer case to not only allow bringing up the velocity, but doing so at roughly the same or lower pressurs, which is pretty inportant if you are working in a 110 degree environment. There were reports from noted guides and hunters outlining failure to extract with the early 458 Win Mag...not something I assume one would enjoy while ataring down angry dagga' boys?! Never hunted Africa myself (likely should have said that FIRST!) but know many who have/do, and I've fired about everything viable for use down there on the range I work at. I actually enjoy the Lott versus the 458 Win in terms of recoil as well. All things being relatively equal in terms of weight and barrel length etc, it feels to me that the recoil on the Lott is less severe than the Win Mag. I know this is a function of physics and numbers don't lie (weight of projectile / velocity / gun weight) but I believe they can be made to fudge a little. I feel the lower pressure due to longer case and leade gives a noticably softer shove, as opposed to the ass kicking snap I always percieve from a Win Mag. Maybe it IS just me, who knows. Just wanted to add the temperature/pressure discussion to the mix...what say the rest of you?0 -
This is my take on the rifles you asked about. First- the model 70's that I have encountered would not feed. We have even talked to the old winchester factory and they admitted that they could not get them to feed either.[ bet I catch it for that one] second-The old whitworth mausers would feed with some small changes. I have not used the 798 or the cz but they are the new version of the older interarms rifles and should work with the same changes.Third- why is it most folks bash the rem 700? it works. This supposed crud about controled feed is bunk.if you short rack any bolt gun it will not feed. SLAM the darn thing open and hit the bolt stop HARD and it will work. putz around at the range trying to save empty brass and they mess up. Fourth- the ONLY 458 that I could get to feed every time was/is a ss ruger that was rebarreled. this one will feed and eject empty cases. I have not used a 458 in Africa. I have been a bear guide since '91 and hunted as much as 130 days a year. This only my observations,yours may vary. Swanie 0 -
quote:Originally posted by wilmamae
This is my take on the rifles you asked about. First- the model 70's that I have encountered would not feed. We have even talked to the old winchester factory and they admitted that they could not get them to feed either.[ bet I catch it for that one] second-The old whitworth mausers would feed with some small changes. I have not used the 798 or the cz but they are the new version of the older interarms rifles and should work with the same changes.Third- why is it most folks bash the rem 700? it works. This supposed crud about controled feed is bunk.if you short rack any bolt gun it will not feed. SLAM the darn thing open and hit the bolt stop HARD and it will work. putz around at the range trying to save empty brass and they mess up. Fourth- the ONLY 458 that I could get to feed every time was/is a ss ruger that was rebarreled. this one will feed and eject empty cases. I have not used a 458 in Africa. I have been a bear guide since '91 and hunted as much as 130 days a year. This only my observations,yours may vary. Swanie
Controlled round feed is not about feeding in general, as compared to the Remington 700, or the Winchester 70 push feed rifles. The issue is, is there is NOTHING in the push feed's, or the 700 to hold the cartridge in front of the bolt, and it could be prone to dropping out of the rifle, if you get tipped on your head with a pissed off charging animal. The Mauser style claw extractors are the controlled round feed, and will hold the cartridge in place...or have a better chance to, than the 700.
Best
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quote:oscat271
Starting Member
48 Posts
Posted - 05/20/2011 : 08:12:49 AM
Hello, I have had a Rem. 700 safari classic .458 Win.mag for many years
now. Other than the stock cracking between the recoil lug and front guard screw, I have have had NO repeat NO malfunctions of ANY kind.
My henchmen and I have fired hundreds of rounds (factory, but mostly reloads). If you are man enough to pull the trigger, you should be able to work the bolt properly.
No one has said anything about failure to work the bolt properly. Fact remains, that the 700 has no means of retaining a cartridge to the bolt like the Model 70, or 98 Mauser style extractor. Little things like that are extra insurance.
Oh, and yes, I have had a cartridge in a 700 pop the magazine, and hit the ground...had nothing to do with working the bolt properly.0 -
Hello, I have had a Rem. 700 safari classic .458 Win.mag for many years
now. Other than the stock cracking between the recoil lug and front guard screw, I have have had NO repeat NO malfunctions of ANY kind.
My henchmen and I have fired hundreds of rounds (factory, but mostly reloads). If you are man enough to pull the trigger, you should be able to work the bolt properly.
You would be a fool if you were going to face ANY dangerous game animals without being adept at properly working your weapon.
Last I heard our U.S.M.C. was still fielding modified 700's (M40 type),
SO, can they be all that bad?
I also believe that is why your guide is right there with you.
You are paying him for is experience AND for a quick back up shot if some UNLIKELY malfunction were to happen.
The 700 is a sweet shooting rifle and I would have NO concerns about my second (or third) shot going off when needed.
SO, to reply to your question, Yes I have experience with this rifle.
This is not something I read somewhere, This was/is actually using one.
Dave.0 -
If you go with the Lott, you may want to experiment with shooting the 458 win. in it. I suspect accuracy will suffer quite a bit when shooting the shorter round in the long chamber. Some other similar combos I have tried have not shot very well with a shorter round. Just a thought. 0
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