Effective Range for HK91 and derivatives
So the much admired HK appears to be the high quality belle of the ball for the 7.62x51mm (NATO). And much can be and has been said about the distinctions between metrics vs Winchester... and the production quality of various licensed (clone) production.
But there seems to be as much variance of opinion on effective range as there is variation of product. I've seen reviews of 91s that claim as few as 500 meters or as great as 1100 yards.
Let us suppose that I actually find time to go find that stag next season and try to put him in the crosshairs from a half mile out. Seems eminently fair to the beast, given that I seriously doubt I could make that shot anymore, without some heat seeking bullet... more like gambling than hunting anyway. But I would definitely want him to FDGB after all that.
So assuming I'd like to keep my rig, scope and all, around a grand... and using ammunitions that won't deplete my savings... What is the effective range of the 91?
But there seems to be as much variance of opinion on effective range as there is variation of product. I've seen reviews of 91s that claim as few as 500 meters or as great as 1100 yards.
Let us suppose that I actually find time to go find that stag next season and try to put him in the crosshairs from a half mile out. Seems eminently fair to the beast, given that I seriously doubt I could make that shot anymore, without some heat seeking bullet... more like gambling than hunting anyway. But I would definitely want him to FDGB after all that.
So assuming I'd like to keep my rig, scope and all, around a grand... and using ammunitions that won't deplete my savings... What is the effective range of the 91?
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Effective is a relative term.
The FAL is a better rifle in nearly every respect, except modularity.
They are, as a factory produced item:
More accurate.
Recoil less.
Have a real bolt hold open.
Have adjustable gas.
Have a sliding rear sight with elevations out to 600m, as opposed to that retarded rotating drum on the HK, good to 400m. Without "West Virginia Elevation"...the counterpart to "Kentucky Windage".
Have a nicer charging handle, that you don't have to reach into the next county to utilize.
The HK G3/91 is OK, it's reliable, it's durable, it's NOT ergonomic. The mags are sturdy, cheap and plentiful. It's a tractor which dispenses lead pills.0 -
It's effective range is "your" effecive range. In most cases with the proper optics, it has the ballistic capability to do the job at 800+ , If you have that capability. That being said, Why are you using a 91 for hunting?? Also in my experience the FAL is a much more consistent grouping weapon. As Drp said the 91 is a tractor. A stout utilitarian weapon.
If I was trying the long shot on game I'd have a bolt gun0 -
quote:Originally posted by Weimar
What is the effective range of the 91?
What do you mean by "effective range"?
Max distance to consistently hit a stationary human-sized target, or max to hold a 6" group, arguably the standard for hunting deer-sized game?
Obviously, the first number is going to be quite a bit less than the second.
To answer your question, you'd have to take your gun, your scope, your favored ammo, out onto a range, and see what you can do with it. That's the only way you're going to have an answer that actually means something. Anything else is just an uneducated guess. Then factor in your comfort level taking a shot at live game, and you'll know your effective range.
Guessing for *myself* (and not for you), even 500 yards is probably pushing things for hunting with that platform. I don't think I'd even try to take that shot, and if I wanted to, I agree that I'd probably be starting with a different gun.0 -
Howdy weimar,
Really, beantown hit the mark... knowing yours, the rifles, and particular ammos limitations. Hit the rangre and go from there seems the answer. Too many "hot-shots" trying to bag a buck a-waay out there not knowing, and I wouldn't give them a BB gun on a squirrel because of.
Don't know what the caparision of the HK91 & FAL is all about with your question asked?-- bottom line, both are main battlefield rifles and not tack-driving hunting rods. One thing not mentioned, and as your spoke of affordable ammo-- what with its delayed roller blowback system & fluted chambers, the HK is hard on brass for reloading. Can be done, but don't expect as many reloads before the brass is worn out.
& welcome to the forum.
45er0 -
The effective (military) range of the 7.62X51mm is about 900 meters at which range its remaining energy is about the same as a .357 magnum. To reliably hit a man sized target, out to those ranges, military and police precision marksmen (snipers) take extensive training with carefully crafted bolt action rifles using high quality precision ammunition. They practice at known and unknown ranges weekly and know every idiosyncrasy of their rifles. The H&K 91 is NOT capable of making these type of shots, nor is any other "rack-grade" battle rifle. Hence, the PSG-1, which was itself a disappointment. With good optics and a good load with a competent shooter I would still stay inside 400 meters for deer size game. 0 -
I recall magazine ads for HK91 in a hunting scenario. I remember it was in a rain or wet snow in the hard woods. Just pack the 5 round magazine and get yourself some deer. Also go for the clean kill instead of some Quigley Down Under shot. 0 -
While I realize you already own a .308 in a HK91, and wish to shoot at (what I consider) ridiculous ranges for live animals with that caliber; I use a .300Win Mag in a Sako TRG-s with a 10-36X scope for what then becomes a decent shot, well within the capability of me and my rifle.
I can only say this because I have spent almost 20 years with this caliber, and have only shot factory ammo in one single case (left my reloads in the plane). They weren't the 220gr Nosler Partitions I normally use, I thought I could compensate, and wound up scaring off a really big moose at 400yds.
I have taken Elk at almost 750yds (across a canyon in Unit 6, by the Jemez), more times than I care to think about, but each dropped as if hit by a schoolbus. You might be able to accomplish the same shot with your chosen platform and ammo combination, but I really think you'd need about 3-5,000 shots beforehand to get it right.
Unless you reload to take advantage of matching the round to your rifle, you might wind up spending every penny you have trying to achieve the impossible (or, really, the improbable-unless you get to audit a Sniper course or 4 somewhere, or become the best shooter you know).
Try this next time you go sighting in, or plinking, or whatever; put a 10-inch pie plate (paper) on the side of a tree with a nail, and walk back as far as you can, counting your steps. When you've taken 300 evenly-spaced, normal strides; you're at almost 900ft.
Can you still see the plate? Aim about 4 feet above the plate and take a shot. Hit the ground about 200ft short? Now you can see what I'm talking about in terms of adequate accuracy for long range shooting.
I'm certain there are those who can hit a 6" paper plate at 1000M with an HK91; but they shoot regularly, and get better after each outing (and their optics cost more than my car).0 -
Weimar,
The H&K 91 are great rifles, and the base for the PSG-1 sniper rifle. That said from experience, some of their clones are just OK, and some suck. Depends on the parts being used, who made them, and the folks putting them together. I have seen clowns like Hesse, vulcan, and Blackthorne...same people, different company names...that couldnt put together a two piece jig-saw puzzle.
That being said, the 91 is by no means the top of the 7.62 NATO class. That honor IMHO, belongs to the AR-10's. They are extremely accurate, and reliable. The right model, coupled with the right glass is capable of 1000 yards or a touch more.
Best0 -
I have seen drop in conversions for M-1 Garands that convert them from 30.06 to 308. I know an M-1 can be a very accurate rifle with the right barrel. Just my two cents. Best 0 -
I doubt you will make an ethical shot past 400m with open sights. If you can get a good quality scope properly mounted and doped you might extend your range to 500m.
Bare in mind, at those distances the flight time is quite long relatively speaking, so you not only have to know your ballistics like the back of your hand, but you have to know your prey and take the shot when you know it is going to remain in the same place from ignition to impact.
Two draw backs of the HK system is that it damages brass and is usually overgassed. reloading for it is expensive, and factory ammo may not be accurate enough.
On paper, with a proper scope and consistant ammo you could hit targets at 1100 and maybe a few houndred yards beyond, if you have the data to do so. in my opinion though, you should never shoot at those ranges at a live target, no matter how good you get in paper, there are to many things that could go wrong.0
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