1851 Conversion
I've been looking at a Navy Arms 1851 conversion in 38 special at the local gun shop, it seems to have no barrel gap. The cylinder rotates fine with no drag and locks up fine. Would this be any problem with pressure or anything? Thanks.
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That would not be a problem.
In fact, one of those bizarre-looking old Russian revolvers actually was designed to push the cylinder forward against the forcing cone when the trigger was pulled.
Neal0 -
Neal; that odd looking Russian revolver is actually a Belgian design ( built by the Belgians first, production was moved to Russia later) put together by the Nagant brothers, Emile and Leon, but I'm sure you know that and just generalized.
Mackcrane; A small cylinder/forcing cone gap is generally considered a sign of very good design and manufacture.0 -
Two issues: If there's no barrel gap, the cylinder will bind after a few shots either using black or smokeless powder. Hand filing a gap isn't a problem for a steady hand.
The second is more serious. The 38SPL shoots a .357" diameter bullet while the 36 Navy shoots a .375" diameter bullet.
The 38 Colt Long shoots the proper bullet for that bore. It's a long obsolete cartridge that is now made as a specialty "Cowboy" round in a lightly loaded version.0 -
Just don't use plus P loads in that conversion or you will end up with barrel gap. Standard loads only or even 38 short colts will work fine.
JP0 -
A single 000 buck with a light load of Unique shoots well out of these revolvers.
Coating the ball with alox or Bore Butter helps. If you use Bore Butter do not load too far in advance.
These loads are so low in pressure that resizing isn't usually needed. We can hit a coffee can 9 times out of 10 at 50 feet.
Have fun.0 -
Since this is a factory conversion and not a conversion cylinder, wouldn't the barrel be .357 diameter? 0 -
If it's an authentic conversion copy, it's for the 38 Long Colt. The 38 Special wasn't around then.
You have to slug the bore to see what you have.
38 Spl Hollow Base Wadcutter Midrange target ammunition may work if you only want to shoot standard factory ammo.
The Russian and French Nagant revolvers fired with a closed cylinder gap only on firing not during cylinder rotation.0 -
This one was made by Armi San Marco for Navy Arms and has 38 Special on the barrel. Should the barrel still be slugged, a 38 158gr. roundnose will not fit in the muzzle so it should be .357 dia., don't you think? Isn't Armi out of business? 0 -
I don't see a safety problem shooting a .357 bullet down a barrel made for a .375 bullet. However it should be noted that .375 bullet is actually smaller than that. When you load the bullet there should be a ring of lead shaved off. 0 -
Armi San Marco (ASM) is, I believe, out of business.
The gun you are talking about is a modern-made gun, probably from the mid-1980's to mid-1990's. If the barrel is marked .38 S&W Special, then that is most likely just what it says it is. The Italian arms makers do follow good standard practice.
I would sure like to acquire one of those revolvers!!
If you buy the gun, I believe you should be careful of the ammo you fire through the thing, because, compared to a good S&W, Colt or even the lower-end revolvers made today, this ASM is fragile. ASM probably made the gun from the same basic frame and steel that the black powder percussion versions were made. It would be tough at this point to make any determinations along those lines though.
If you reload, this is simple. If you do not, you may consider firing only "standard" or (best) low velocity loads with 158 gr. or lighter lead bullets, rather than higher velocity ammo or jacketed bullets. I think the best factory ammo you could use would be wad cutters, since they tend to be light-weight lead slugs loaded light, to a lower velocity.
I personally believe that a low velocity round should be used with a gun like this to ensure its long-term integrity. I think that an ideal load for this gun would be a 125 (or lighter) grain round or flat nosed lead slug in front of 3.0 to 3.2 grains of Tightgroup, but that's just what I shoot in these old guns.
The ammo thoughts, above, are regarding smokeless powder loads. If you are considering loading black powder cartridges, the powder and load recommendation would change. ALSO, if you shoot black powder, it is besst to avoid completely the use of hydrocarbon (refined crude oil) based lubricants or solvents in this gun for ANY purpose. The burned black powder 9or bp substitute) mixes with hydrocarbons, forming a sticky asphaltine mess in the gun, fouling it so completely that the cylinder may not even turn within only a few rounds being fired. Use an organic substance like a beeswax and lanlolin mixture to lube the gun and clean the bore with a non-hydrocarbon product that you buy or make.
Also, if I were you, I would NOT work this gun over, trying to lighten the trigger. Parts would be tough to come by for this gun, although the Pietta or Uberti or even old Colt parts might be fitted. I think that the hammer on this gun would be the most critical part to be able to replace. So, be careful with the hammer and its sear notches, thinking twice prior to taking a file or stone to it.
Be extra careful if you dismantle the thing, because most of those Italian arms companies really tightened up the screws and they are easy to damage because they used screws, which are not very hard and you can twist out the slots very easily. Use only the hollow-ground gunsmith's screwdrivers of the exact screw-slot width and thickness to work on any firearm, but these Italian ones especially.0 -
I have some Magtech 158 gr. lead roundnose ammo, 700+ fps and 200 flbs muzzle energy. Would this be OK? 0
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