91/30 Scope Question
I know I've asked a few times recently about a scope for the VZ24, I made multiple posts which I am sorry about, I'm in chronic pain and have a severe joint condition, so sometimes im a little out of it so I appologise, but down to the question since the VZ 24 doesnt look like it has an option for a scope what about a 91/30? I've heard of people either bending the bolt or mounting a scope on the rear sight? Wondering if anyone has done either of the above and how they like it, I've used the standard sites out to almost 400 yards and it's damn accurate with good ammunition and I have seen video's of people hitting targets at 800+ yards So that's the gun I've decided to put a scope on now my question is, is it better to alter the bolt )bend it) and mount a scope or to put a scope on the rear sight. Any input would be really appreciated. Again I'm sorry about the multiple posts in regards to the VZ24.
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Suggest you follow the Russian model of sniper rifle and turn down the bolt. There are several excellent articles on the net on how you can go about turning a Mosin into a sniper. Google is your friend. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by DerBarbarian
I know I've asked a few times recently about a scope for the VZ24, I made multiple posts which I am sorry about, I'm in chronic pain and have a severe joint condition, so sometimes im a little out of it so I appologise, but down to the question since the VZ 24 doesnt look like it has an option for a scope what about a 91/30? I've heard of people either bending the bolt or mounting a scope on the rear sight? Wondering if anyone has done either of the above and how they like it, I've used the standard sites out to almost 400 yards and it's damn accurate with good ammunition and I have seen video's of people hitting targets at 800+ yards So that's the gun I've decided to put a scope on now my question is, is it better to alter the bolt )bend it) and mount a scope or to put a scope on the rear sight. Any input would be really appreciated. Again I'm sorry about the multiple posts in regards to the VZ24.
On 91/30, The problem there is that the split receiver design makes it bit harder to mount a scope in the standard location than most ordinary rifles.
You have to either use a side mount (like the Russians did), or alternatively, use a sort of cantilevered mount over the receiver. ATI makes one, though I think there are others too.
Both these ways require gunsmithing to drill and tap the receiver, and of course both also require a bent-down bolt to clear the scope.
I've used the rear sight "scout" mount, and its easy to install without gunsmithing, and it does work. Biggest disadvantage there is that you have to use a long-eye relief scope. That limits you in terms of both field of view and magnification.
Below is a closeup of my SK forward mount on a Russian M44 carbine with a Leupold 2x pistol scope. Same type of mount is available for a 91/30. I don't get much magnification, but I find this arrangement a *LOT* better than just iron sights, and for shooting out to 100-150 yards its perfectly fine.
If you really want to shoot out past 300 yards, then forget the "scout" scope. You'll want a higher magnification scope and to run that right, you'd want a conventional mount. Personally, I'd go for the cantilevered type mount (rather than the side mount), since I think its more flexible in terms of what you can stick on there.
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Yea I've been thinking with the cost of gun smithing and all that jazz, I may just buy a Remington 700 SPS Tactical and go that route, something new, and reliable and that's really meant to shoot at range, granted it only has a 20" narrel it can still hit targets at 800+ yards from what i've been told. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by DerBarbarian
Yea I've been thinking with the cost of gun smithing and all that jazz, I may just buy a Remington 700 SPS Tactical and go that route, something new, and reliable and that's really meant to shoot at range, granted it only has a 20" narrel it can still hit targets at 800+ yards from what i've been told.
Hold on a second.
First figure out what exactly you're trying to do here. Hitting anything at 800 yards isn't trivial no matter what setup you're using.
If you really want to shoot out to 800 yards, then I agree. Instead of trying to rework an inexpensive surplus WWII era infantry rifle into something it really isn't, I'd suggest just starting off with a platform designed to shoot that far. Remington 700 is certainly one way to go; there are others that could work too. How much is your budget?
No matter which way you want to go, fundamentally you'll need something in a "real" caliber with a match grade barrel and trigger, good optics, and match-grade ammo.
Mosin Nagant rifles *can* shoot very accurately, but you have to get the right one, and you have to load them with good ammo. Unless you're starting with one of the sporterized Finnish match ones, you also have to deal with their intrinsic limitations (ie stiff bolt action, stock designed for short Russian peasants in winter clothes, generally "grindy" triggers, etc).
The typical 7.62x54R surplus ammo isn't horrible, but its also not match grade, and if you really want to shoot better than 2 MOA, you're probably going to need to load your own. Generalizing, if you want to shoot *anything* at 800 yards you're probably going to want to load your own ammo.
Just picking up a random $90 gun from the rack, and you're just as likely to get something with a gritty 8lb trigger, a corroded bore that looks like a sewer pipe, a worn crown, and an over-tight stock, and none of these things are conducive to match accuracy. Assuming you want to create some sort of Mosin-sniper rifle, you may have to go through a number of rifles before you find a good candidate to work on.
Once you find a good candidate gun, THEN it shouldn't be too expensive to get a scope on there. Having a gunsmith drill and tap the gun for a scope mount should run roughly $100 or so, including cost of mount. Scope costs depends on what you want on there, but it will cost you the same as any other rifle, so its not really an "extra" cost. You'd probably want a trigger job (which you might be able to do yourself) or use the Timney drop-in match grade trigger for about $100. You may want a recoil pad to extend the length of pull and preserve your shoulder a bit (figure another $15-20). Cheek rest will likely be helpful given the low-stock design of these. Pre-bent bolt handles are available for about $75-100, or you could get someone to do it for you for about the same.
The point is you can sporterize a Mosin into a fairly decent "sniper" for maybe $400, plus cost of scope.
Whether or not doing so is worth the bother and cost depends on what you're trying to do and why. As a fun project, this could be good.
If you just want a cheap-but-accurate centerfire rifle, that same $400 could buy you a new .308 or .30-06 Savage or Stevens rifle. The Savage will give you a plain, but modern ergonomic synthetic stock with recoil pad and built-in swivels, a better (and potentially adjustable) trigger, easy to mount scope, and 2 MOA (or maybe better) accuracy out of the box.
In other words, it will basically do everything your sporterized Mosin will do (or better) at the same cost with quite a bit less hassle, and increased resale value.0
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