Remington 700 SPS Tactical .308
Hi folks,
New to the board, but I'm a firearms enthusiast. I'm a competitive clay shooter and handgun shooter. Never really got into rifles, but I'm starting to now.
I've been looking at getting the Remington 700 SPS Tactical with the Hogue stock. I wanted the Hogue stock because I wanted something tactical looking that didn't nick or scratch. Now, as I said I don't know much about rifles but I'm a little concerned about the accuracy of the 20 inch bull barrel. I would assume it wouldn't be as accurate as a 26 inch barrel.
Does anyone here have any pros and cons?
New to the board, but I'm a firearms enthusiast. I'm a competitive clay shooter and handgun shooter. Never really got into rifles, but I'm starting to now.
I've been looking at getting the Remington 700 SPS Tactical with the Hogue stock. I wanted the Hogue stock because I wanted something tactical looking that didn't nick or scratch. Now, as I said I don't know much about rifles but I'm a little concerned about the accuracy of the 20 inch bull barrel. I would assume it wouldn't be as accurate as a 26 inch barrel.
Does anyone here have any pros and cons?
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Welcome to the forum and enjoy!
It's all about the quality. The intrinsic accuracy of the rifle barrel is a matter of quality, not length (within reason). No matter how much you shoot, no matter how much load development you do, etc ..., you can never shoot any better than the intrinsic accuracy of your barrel.
Check this out ...
http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html
Most of my rifles have between 22" to 24" barrels and prefer 26"+ for the longer ranges.
Happy safe hunting/shooting.
Ed0 -
sh0tty,
Welcome to the Gunbroker forums!
Briefly, the length of a barrel does not have any bearing on the rifles accuracy unless you are shooting open sights and need the additional sight radius to help with accuracy. It's the attention paid to making the barrel straight with a concentric chamber and then assembled into a full rifle which makes the most difference. Each aspect of the rifle can contribute or take away from the accuracy.
The Hogue stocks are only marginally better than the factory Remington stocks. For general hunting, you probably won't know the difference. But if your intention is to achieve an improved degree of accuracy by using the Hogue, you might be disappointed...
If you're afraid of marking the stock, try a laminated stock. Wood can be repaired. The best solution is a Bell and Carlson, HS Precision or the best, McMillan, for a fiberglass stock. Fiberglass can be repaired and repainted after some dings and scrapes. Mine all get dragged through the worst areas of desert, mountains and woods and I just touch them up if necessary. It is a rifle after all, a tool for hunting and shooting.
I keep my best wood stocks out of the worst areas by using a fiberglass stock for hunting.
Best.
ADDED:
For clarification:
While the rule of 'no shorter than 16' is upheld here in the U.S. by the ATF, these tests noted in the link were conducted by Shaikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum (aka Saeed) in the U.A.E where the ATF really has no authority. Since the rule of length has no application in the U.A.E., no law was broken. Saeed is a member of the royal family which currently rules the U.A.E. These tests were conducted in his gunsmithing lab and were published on the website which he owns and operates in the U.A.E.
Best.0 -
I think the 20" barrel is pretty much going to be as accurate as the 24" barrel. Others may disagree. The bull barrel, I think, should help with accuracy, due to its weight in helping stabilize the weapon when fired and if you are going to carry it around, it can be troublesome. You should understand the weight differences in variously-configured rifles as this can be problematic in the field. I believe the 20" barrel should be good out to 500 yards. Better if you are good, too. The 20" barrel is a huge asset in improving gun handling in the field, too.
Since we are talking about a commercial factory offering, the weapon's accuracy probably can be improved by various means. HOWEVER....the rifle you are talking about should be very accurate right out of the box! So, I suggest you do not do anything to it until you have intensly evaluated it through firetesting and research and asking here on the Forums and other gun-related online forums...just do a search on gun forum; there are several good ones.
To get the best out of the rifle, I suggest you put a hundred rounds or so through the thing. Find out by asking what the best factory ammo and loads are and buy maybe four different ones. Then bench-shoot it to determine what it likes best. Bullet weight variation can be a large factor in accuracy at various distances, so consider that.
I suggest you go to several gun stores and try to handle similar rifles in various configurations. You may find the plain wood stock to be the best fit. I suggest you either order the rifle with the least expensive stock and then buy a high-end replacement as necessary or just go with the factory upgrade of the Hogue to keep costs down. The Hogue will probably be just fine and, indeed a lesser stock will probably be fine, too. The determining factor is fit. If an expensive stock in not comfortable, then it is not worth it. I believe that a good length of pull on a weapon is critical and customizing this may be the only thing you need to do. Don't worry about a wood stock getting scratched and dinged up. Honest wear and marks give a good weapon character. Just make sure you store it properly to make sure it does not get unnecessarily banged up in transit from one place to another.
Other accuracy enhancers are good care. I suggest:
== Boyd (find them online) high-end cotton canvas and leather gun cases
== BreakFree CLP (cleaner/lubricant/protectant).
== Quality cleaning equipment including
high quality chamber brush
high quality copper disolving solvent to remove copper jacket buildup in the bore.
Something else you can do to get some ideas of what you must look for in accurizing a factory rifle, is to purchase a dvd that shows you how to accurize. You probably will not do the work, but it helps to know. My opinion is that you should understand IF your rifle needs work and WHAT that work might be to achieve the best accuracy for your weapon, instead of just throwing money at it. Something like an instructional dvd can help. Indeed, it might be a good idea to get a book or a dvd and study that first, before you buy the rifle.
I am not endorsing this particular dvd and there are probably others available, but one that I happened to come by that I found informative and interesting is the American Gunsmithing Institute (AGI) dvd entitled, Super Tuning the Factory Rifle. There may may be equal or better instructional dvds out there...check the Brownells or Midway USA websites/catalogs to see what dvds or other references are available. These AGI videos cost about $40+S&H and may be available for less. Also, check the GunBroker auctions for one of these instructional dvds...you may find it there at a big savings.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sh0tty
Hi folks,
Now, as I said I don't know much about rifles but I'm a little concerned about the accuracy of the 20 inch bull barrel. I would assume it wouldn't be as accurate as a 26 inch barrel.
As mentioned, barrel QUALITY is the key ingredient in accuracy, not the length.
There is absolutely no reason a 20" barrel can't be every bit as accurate as a 26" one, and in theory the shorter length could make it even MORE accurate since its proportionally stiffer than the longer one. I say in "theory". . .in practice its more complicated than that, and its not fair to generalize that shorter barrels are more accurate.
Other than the longer sight radius, which might help with accuracy if you were using iron sights, what a longer barrel potentially buys you is more velocity, a bit less noise (since the "bang" comes out a few inches further from your ears), and a bit less flash (since more burning powder is contained inside the barrel).
A longer barrel buys you a little bit more weight (which may be a positive or a negative, depending on your point of view), plus potentially makes the gun a little harder to handle in brush or confined spaces.
What barrel length is best depends on personal preference and what you want to accomplish. In a gun that's going to be carried/handled a lot and shot very little, a shorter barrel might be handier. In a gun that's going to be shot FAR, a longer barrel is probably better.
quote:Check this out ...
http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html
Very interesting stuff, though I think I ought to point out that rifles with barrels under 16" inches long fall under Federal regulation, and that you probably shouldn't really chop one down shorter than that without filling out some forms and paying some extra tax first.
Edit:
quote:Nononsense: While the rule of 'no shorter than 16' is upheld here in the U.S. by the ATF, these tests noted in the link were conducted by Shaikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum (aka Saeed) in the U.A.E where the ATF really has no authority. Since the rule of length has no application in the U.A.E., no law was broken
Very interesting. Thanks for the clarification.
I never accused the author of doing anything illegal, and in fact I assumed that if he was posting pictures of it on the internet, it was done legally. My point was only that this is potentially one of those "do not try this at home" things, that's all.
For what its worth, minimum legal barrel length in Canada is 18", by the way, of interest if you want to legally bring long guns there from here.0 -
I have the exact rifle you described. I can consistently shoot 3/4 M.O.A. with Federal factory ammo.
It is a joy to shoot in every way. Wile I don't use it for hunting, I'm sure it would serve well in that capacity. The scope I chose was a Leupold Mk IV 10X.
Prior to retirement, I was the Chief Firearms Technician and Test Engineer at Browning Arms, R&D Division for many years. While there, I did all the testing requiring utmost accuracy, and fired well over 32,000 rounds during developmental testing for the BOSS system alone.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Rob0 -
quote:Originally posted by blacarrow
I have the exact rifle you described. I can consistently shoot 3/4 M.O.A. with Federal factory ammo.
It is a joy to shoot in every way. Wile I don't use it for hunting, I'm sure it would serve well in that capacity. The scope I chose was a Leupold Mk IV 10X.
Prior to retirement, I was the Chief Firearms Technician and Test Engineer at Browning Arms, R&D Division for many years. While there, I did all the testing requiring utmost accuracy, and fired well over 32,000 rounds during developmental testing for the BOSS system alone.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Rob
Thanks, Rob. Do you find that the Hogue stock makes the gun more/less accurate? My AR15 has a similar rubberized stock and it really helped with the kick and was still dead accurate. I just can't fathom why it would have an effect on the accuracy...0 -
quote:Originally posted by sh0tty
quote:Originally posted by blacarrow
I have the exact rifle you described. I can consistently shoot 3/4 M.O.A. with Federal factory ammo.
It is a joy to shoot in every way. Wile I don't use it for hunting, I'm sure it would serve well in that capacity. The scope I chose was a Leupold Mk IV 10X.
Prior to retirement, I was the Chief Firearms Technician and Test Engineer at Browning Arms, R&D Division for many years. While there, I did all the testing requiring utmost accuracy, and fired well over 32,000 rounds during developmental testing for the BOSS system alone.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
Rob
Thanks, Rob. Do you find that the Hogue stock makes the gun more/less accurate? My AR15 has a similar rubberized stock and it really helped with the kick and was still dead accurate. I just can't fathom why it would have an effect on the accuracy...
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
The Hogue stocks are only marginally better than the factory Remington stocks. For general hunting, you probably won't know the difference. But if your intention is to achieve an improved degree of accuracy by using the Hogue, you might be disappointed...
Nononsense covered that already ... believe me he knows his stuff. [^]
ADDED:
vvvvvvvvvvv Told yah! [:p][}:)][^] vvvvvvvvvvv0 -
Thanks for the help, guys. Can anyone tell me why a Hogue stock isn't as accurate as a wooden stock or fiberglass? 0 -
sh0tty,
It's the stock design, construction and the materials used in that construction. The stock has too much flexing in the forearm which will increase in warmer weather. Flexing can cause the forearm to touch the barrel or add stress to the barreled action, both of which result in inaccuracy.
The pillar bedding is a good touch but irrelevant when combined with the rest of the stock. I do like the outside coating but again that's a low level reason to put up with the rest of that stock.
For better accuracy we generally recommend a stiffer fiberglass or composite stock. Pillar bedding is the best solution for consistent, stress-free bedding which is what we look for as an end result. Usually the barrel channel is adjusted so as not to touch the barrel at all. Some folks add a pad of bedding material for about an inch or so just in front of the recoil lug.
The laminated wood stocks are fairly rigid, resist stress and can be bedded stress-free like composite stocks. My objection is to the look of plywood.
If you would like more information, ask and I'll supply some links and more discussion.
Best.0
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