Broken Stock Repair Qeustion PT 2.
Continuation of earlier thread.
"If you do it yourself, I would drill some holes in both pieces and install 2 or 3 small wooden dowel rods to add strength. Then glue it back with the dowels glued in as well. The holes wouldn't need to be very deep. I'd say about 3/8" on both sides."
All respect here Brian, but that is NOT the way you want to go about mending a stock broken in that manner. If you notice repairs of this type on military rifles from around the world, the arsenals through drill the stock after having secured it in the correct position. Then they use a dowel rod of correct diameter (actually, a tad tight)and correct wood and after glueing the faces of the broken area, they drive the dowel rod all the way through the repair and cut and shape both ends of the exposed dowel to follow the contours of the stock. Another method is brass heavy wire/rod that is driven through a very small hole drilled in the repair area; depends on whose arsenal as to methodology.
It would be a daunting, if not outright impossible task to locate two holes in opposing sides of the break, and orient them in all axis' correctly for glueing; they would just NEVER meet quite correctly. So THIS is why you should take this bad boy to a good stock worker for TLC. The 38 Cavalry is not all that common, so worth saving I think.
EDIT #1: There may be 9 ways to skin a cat, but there is STILL ONE WAY to repair this correctly as mentioned...[;)]
EDIT#2: I agree Todd. Glues these days largely make it unneccesary to use pins of any kind. A jig set-up of that scale would be a scary expenditure, and if one exists the poster could access, it is likely in the hands of the experts we have already suggested. Best of luck with your project.
"If you do it yourself, I would drill some holes in both pieces and install 2 or 3 small wooden dowel rods to add strength. Then glue it back with the dowels glued in as well. The holes wouldn't need to be very deep. I'd say about 3/8" on both sides."
All respect here Brian, but that is NOT the way you want to go about mending a stock broken in that manner. If you notice repairs of this type on military rifles from around the world, the arsenals through drill the stock after having secured it in the correct position. Then they use a dowel rod of correct diameter (actually, a tad tight)and correct wood and after glueing the faces of the broken area, they drive the dowel rod all the way through the repair and cut and shape both ends of the exposed dowel to follow the contours of the stock. Another method is brass heavy wire/rod that is driven through a very small hole drilled in the repair area; depends on whose arsenal as to methodology.
It would be a daunting, if not outright impossible task to locate two holes in opposing sides of the break, and orient them in all axis' correctly for glueing; they would just NEVER meet quite correctly. So THIS is why you should take this bad boy to a good stock worker for TLC. The 38 Cavalry is not all that common, so worth saving I think.
EDIT #1: There may be 9 ways to skin a cat, but there is STILL ONE WAY to repair this correctly as mentioned...[;)]
EDIT#2: I agree Todd. Glues these days largely make it unneccesary to use pins of any kind. A jig set-up of that scale would be a scary expenditure, and if one exists the poster could access, it is likely in the hands of the experts we have already suggested. Best of luck with your project.
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When you get an estimate for restoring your stock, you may think it expensive, but compare that price against losing the total value of your gun! Believe me, unless you are a master stock maker yourself, you cannot duplicate the work done by experts.
It would be a crying shame to ruin a historic gun such as yours.0 -
There are 9 ways to skin a cat... 0 -
Having found the original thread I would say this. Glue it. Then clamp it tight. Put some towels in the clamps it to prevent further dinging/damaging of the wood. Clean all glue that came out of the repair before it starts to set.
{Edit: When glue was first used it wasn't near as strong nor as waterproof. Modern glue makes it possible to not need the dowel pins}
I understand what you guys who are proponents of using a dowel are saying. However, in this case where the break is along the grain of the wood, just gluing it will be every bit as strong. If the break ran somewhere where it crossed grains, then a dowel pin would be necessary.
Also, 1kydster is correct about how to go about a "military" repair. Even a civilian one if you are okay with a dowel pin repair showing in your stock. If you break a stock on a hunting trip this will at least get you back hunting in 24 hours or so. At which point I don't think I'd be worried about how the stock looked.
The problem with starting a dowel from the center of a break is that not only does the center of the bore area of the repair have to match so does the angle of the bore. Any difference and you will have a stock that won't match up when compressed together. Drilling one hole as 1kydster noted will align the repair bore all the way through.
However, there are tools that can do this. But, I'm not thinking you may want to spend the money to do that. FWIW, the broken stock is placed in a jig. Then the pieces clamped together in the jig. The jig is two pieces, each side now gets clamped in. The pieces are slid apart in the jig, using the jigs guide rails, to allow a centering drill between them. This drill is shaped like a "T". and geared to turn two small bits that will start/center holes on the same axis. You can then use a centering drill bit to bore the hole you require. As you can imagine this set-up would cost a lot of money. This tool is not specific to the gunstock industry, more to the historic restoration industry when specific wood has to be saved and no dowel pins showing is important.0 -
I agree with sandwarrior.. No dowels necessary.. A clean break with epoxy will be as strong, or stronger than the original grain structure.. Don't use anything like Gorilla Glue since it expands when it cures.. You'll need to wipe-off the excess epoxy with a solvent/thinner like paint thinner, naphtha.. Test an area to make sure the finish isn't hurt.. If the finish comes off, try a dry plastic resin glue that is water soluble.. Available at a real paint store, or..
http://www.amazon.com/00203-Weldwood-Plastic-Resin-1-Pound/dp/B001003J160 -
if this situation was in my shop... i would proceed with acra-glass and surgical tubing. looking at the pics... no pins required. the break [:(] is with the grain. just my 2 cents worth. 0 -
One of my reasons for considering doing this repair myself is that I am not aware of any stock repairers in this part of rural Eastern Washington.
Yes, the break is along the grain. I disassembled the stock to get a better look at things.
If I were to place a couple of pins I think it could be done without them being visible. Does that make a difference in anyone's advice?0 -
i really think that pins, as Todd and others noted are unnecessary. A good, modern glue and surgical tubing (260 with sage advice there)to hold it together without marring is the way to go. Pins would not be worth the trouble...waste of your time at this point. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 260
if this situation was in my shop... i would proceed with acra-glass and surgical tubing. looking at the pics... no pins required. the break [:(] is with the grain. just my 2 cents worth.
+1
This really is one of the best ways to go0 -
I use surgical tubing quite often on my furniture and stock repairs.. However, since you want to preserve the original finish, the squeeze-out will be difficult, if not impossible to clean-off using tubing.. Coating the stock with a paste wax may work..And then again, it may not.. The wax itself may damage the finish being held against the wood while the epoxy cures....
One other thought.. You don't need a gunsmith for this.. A local shop, or person that does quality furniture repair/restoration can easily handle this..0 -
Good idea with the surgical tubes too. I've never used them, but they hold pressure evenly. With a couple wraps around the stock you could get more even pressure than with clamps. I'd go with that, and just glue it. 0
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