.338 wm vs .300wm, .270 wsm "rebate check battle"
So the other day I got in on a really good deal on a howa 1500 laminate thumbhole blued in .338 wm ever since then I have been trying to decide on keeping it or selling it this will probably be the only rifle I buy for myself in a while, and I just found out uncle Sam is giving me the money to pay for it 
.
So I have been pouring over ballistic programs, loading data, loading costs/availability.
And I have decided very little however I have come to the point where I have a question, looking at the below balistics why would I want the .338 over the .270wsm?
http://ammoguide.com/?tool=bcompare&it=75|107|267|88
Simulated Shooting Conditions
Sight-in Range: 300 yds Max Range: 500 yds
Cross Wind: 25 mph Temp: 59 F
Altitude: 1000 msl Sight Height: 1.5 in
300 Winchester Magnum 150 gr. Super-Xr Power-Pointr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.294 - Muzzle Velocity: 3290
DISTANCE TIME ELAPSED LINE-OF-SIGHT DROP WIND DRIFT VELOCITY ENERGY
0 0 -1.5 0 3290 3601.63
100 0.1 3.4 2.22 2950 2894.92
200 0.2 4.2 9.33 2634 2308.96
300 0.32 0 22.14 2340 1821.83
400 0.46 -10.5 41.72 2065 1418.6
500 0.62 -29.2 69.38 1810 1089.75
338 Winchester Magnum 200 gr. Super-Xr Power-Pointr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.308 - Muzzle Velocity: 2960
DISTANCE TIME ELAPSED LINE-OF-SIGHT DROP WIND DRIFT VELOCITY ENERGY
0 0 -1.5 0 2960 3887.13
100 0.11 4.4 2.43 2658 3133.87
200 0.23 5.3 10.23 2375 2502.36
300 0.36 0 24.35 2110 1974.57
400 0.51 -13 45.96 1862 1538.74
500 0.68 -36.2 76.47 1635 1186.64
270 WSM 150 gr. Super-Xr Power-Pointr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.344 - Muzzle Velocity: 3150
DISTANCE TIME ELAPSED LINE-OF-SIGHT DROP WIND DRIFT VELOCITY ENERGY
0 0 -1.5 0 3150 3301.63
100 0.1 3.6 1.99 2867 2734.28
200 0.21 4.4 8.32 2601 2250.41
300 0.33 0 19.61 2350 1837.15
400 0.47 -10.6 36.63 2113 1485.39
500 0.62 -29 60.35 1890 1188.97
So really if the .270 wsm in a similar weight bullet is putting out more ft pounds at longer ranger, and not much less at shorter. Is the .338 really going to do any better on game? Yes the diameter of the round is bigger but in the 270 your throwing a similar amount of lead and can keep that lead going and hitting hard for a much longer distance, it also drifts less and drops less.
Also isn't the .270 going to recoil a lot less than the .338?
If anyone can help me out with this I would greatly appreciate it.
I can see a massively large munition say a .444 or such would make a huge difference in dmg even at a vastly slower speed but in this case where were talking about bullets that are so similar is there really that much difference when the ballistics say they are not?
Please help uncle Sams money is burning a hole in my pocket and I have not even gotten it yet
Oh ya forgot to mention, I will hopefully soon have a 300+ yard private range in my backyard to practice on, so long range will be a factor and if I can get good enough I may even hunt at similar ranges.
.So I have been pouring over ballistic programs, loading data, loading costs/availability.
And I have decided very little
however I have come to the point where I have a question, looking at the below balistics why would I want the .338 over the .270wsm?http://ammoguide.com/?tool=bcompare&it=75|107|267|88
Simulated Shooting Conditions
Sight-in Range: 300 yds Max Range: 500 yds
Cross Wind: 25 mph Temp: 59 F
Altitude: 1000 msl Sight Height: 1.5 in
300 Winchester Magnum 150 gr. Super-Xr Power-Pointr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.294 - Muzzle Velocity: 3290
DISTANCE TIME ELAPSED LINE-OF-SIGHT DROP WIND DRIFT VELOCITY ENERGY
0 0 -1.5 0 3290 3601.63
100 0.1 3.4 2.22 2950 2894.92
200 0.2 4.2 9.33 2634 2308.96
300 0.32 0 22.14 2340 1821.83
400 0.46 -10.5 41.72 2065 1418.6
500 0.62 -29.2 69.38 1810 1089.75
338 Winchester Magnum 200 gr. Super-Xr Power-Pointr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.308 - Muzzle Velocity: 2960
DISTANCE TIME ELAPSED LINE-OF-SIGHT DROP WIND DRIFT VELOCITY ENERGY
0 0 -1.5 0 2960 3887.13
100 0.11 4.4 2.43 2658 3133.87
200 0.23 5.3 10.23 2375 2502.36
300 0.36 0 24.35 2110 1974.57
400 0.51 -13 45.96 1862 1538.74
500 0.68 -36.2 76.47 1635 1186.64
270 WSM 150 gr. Super-Xr Power-Pointr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.344 - Muzzle Velocity: 3150
DISTANCE TIME ELAPSED LINE-OF-SIGHT DROP WIND DRIFT VELOCITY ENERGY
0 0 -1.5 0 3150 3301.63
100 0.1 3.6 1.99 2867 2734.28
200 0.21 4.4 8.32 2601 2250.41
300 0.33 0 19.61 2350 1837.15
400 0.47 -10.6 36.63 2113 1485.39
500 0.62 -29 60.35 1890 1188.97
So really if the .270 wsm in a similar weight bullet is putting out more ft pounds at longer ranger, and not much less at shorter. Is the .338 really going to do any better on game? Yes the diameter of the round is bigger but in the 270 your throwing a similar amount of lead and can keep that lead going and hitting hard for a much longer distance, it also drifts less and drops less.
Also isn't the .270 going to recoil a lot less than the .338?
If anyone can help me out with this I would greatly appreciate it.
I can see a massively large munition say a .444 or such would make a huge difference in dmg even at a vastly slower speed but in this case where were talking about bullets that are so similar is there really that much difference when the ballistics say they are not?
Please help uncle Sams money is burning a hole in my pocket and I have not even gotten it yet
Oh ya forgot to mention, I will hopefully soon have a 300+ yard private range in my backyard to practice on, so long range will be a factor and if I can get good enough I may even hunt at similar ranges.
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Compare to what you listed, I have .300 WM, .338 WM, and .270 Win and preference in order listed, esp on long range and hunting game deer size and larger.
If I was to use factory ammo what you listed will not be my first choice. I reload mine as follows:
.300 WM: .200 NAB (BC=.588), .208 A-Max (BC=.648), .210 Berger VLD (BC=.631)
.338 WM: .225 SST (.515), .225 NAB (BC=.550)
.270 Win: .150 SST (BC=.525), .150 NBT (BC=.496)
In short, I'd pick the .300 Win ... but it really depends on your intended purpose and preference.
Good luck!
Ed0 -
I bought my son a 270 WSM and would hunt anything in North America except Grizzly and polar bear.
Why beat yourself up unnecessarily. I load my son's with 130 SST's and 140 BTSP. Great rifle.
Truly, what ever you get. If you are comfortable and practice with it. I don't think any game will complain with what you shoot it with.0 -
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
Compare to what you listed, I have .300 WM, .338 WM, and .270 Win and preference in order listed, esp on long range and hunting game deer size and larger.
If I was to use factory ammo what you listed will not be my first choice. I reload mine as follows:
.300 WM: .200 NAB (BC=.588), .208 A-Max (BC=.648), .210 Berger VLD (BC=.631)
.338 WM: .225 SST (.515), .225 NAB (BC=.550)
.270 Win: .150 SST (BC=.525), .150 NBT (BC=.496)
In short, I'd pick the .300 Win ... but it really depends on your intended purpose and preference.
Good luck!
Ed
Ya I was just using similar bullets to compare I know theirs a lot more choices, I just wanted to see what similar weight/type bullet did as far as drop/drift at range.
300wm and .270wsm seem very similar at least in the winchestor 150gr loads dunno how I missed this before but you do have a lot more load selection in the 300 dunno how I missed that hrm.
How would you compare the recoil between the 3? And are they similar weight/style rifles you have? The main reason I started looking at the 270/300 is because I'm guessing there going to recoil a lot less than the .338 I am really worried I am not going to like the .338's recoil and also it seems that at ranges of 200+ yards the 270/300 would be better options.0 -
For everything less than the big bears, it would be the 300 Win Mag, and for things including the big bears, the 338. I would toss moose into the category that I would not use a 270 WSM on too.
While we are on the subject, energy, or more specifically, kinetic energy is one of the poorest attributes, that they could have ever picked to judge a cartridge by. It is a very poor indicator of what the bullet is going to do on impact. It double dips in the velocity department, and gives a false sense of being to the lighter faster cartridges. The best indicator I have seen of that is the Taylor factor. This specifically takes the bullet weight in grains, then multiplies it by the velocity, then multiply that by the bullet diameter(.277 for the 270, .308 for the 300, and .338 fopr the 338). After those three factors are multiplied, they are divided by 7000(the amount of grains per pound). This is more based on momentum, but also factors in the bullets diameter.
Best0 -
quote:Originally posted by redice
How would you compare the recoil between the 3? And are they similar weight/style rifles you have? The main reason I started looking at the 270/300 is because I'm guessing there going to recoil a lot less than the .338 I am really worried I am not going to like the .338's recoil and also it seems that at ranges of 200+ yards the 270/300 would be better options.
Recoil, esp. felt recoil is too subjective and varies on too many factors to include the shooter's recoil sensitivity. Anyways, try this ... http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
For my particular rifles and loads. felt recoil for me are as follows:
WORST - .300 WM SAKO M995 and Savage 111F) and .338 (Ruger M77 MKII) are very close.
BEST - .270 Win (Savage 110)
However, with my .300 WM's muzzle brake, felt recoil is reduced comparable to ~ .243 Win and my .338 to ~ .308 Win.
Similar to the Taylor factor as noted by tsr1965, you can try HITS ... http://www.hornady.com/hits/calculator
Hope this helps. Good luck!
ADDED:
L - .300 WM, .200gr NAB, CCI250, 71.5 H4831SC (still have plenty of room), COAL 3.62 (base to tip not ogive)
R - .338 WM, .225gr NAB, CCI250, 72.5 H4831SC (almost maxed out), COAL 3.40 (base to tip not ogive)0 -
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by redice
How would you compare the recoil between the 3? And are they similar weight/style rifles you have? The main reason I started looking at the 270/300 is because I'm guessing there going to recoil a lot less than the .338 I am really worried I am not going to like the .338's recoil and also it seems that at ranges of 200+ yards the 270/300 would be better options.
Recoil, esp. felt recoil is too subjective and varies on too many factors to include the shooter's recoil sensitivity. Anyways, try this ... http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp
For my particular rifles and loads. felt recoil for me are as follows:
WORST - .300 WM SAKO M995 and Savage 111F) and .338 (Ruger M77 MKII) are very close.
BEST - .270 Win (Savage 110)
However, with my .300 WM's muzzle brake, felt recoil is reduced comparable to ~ .243 Win and my .338 to ~ .308 Win.
Similar to the Taylor factor as noted by tsr1965, you can try HITS ... http://www.hornady.com/hits/calculator
Hope this helps. Good luck!
ADDED:
L - .300 WM, .200gr NAB, CCI250, 71.5 H4831SC (still have plenty of room), COAL 3.62 (base to tip not ogive)
R - .338 WM, .225gr NAB, CCI250, 72.5 H4831SC (almost maxed out), COAL 3.40 (base to tip not ogive)
Wow thanks man, last night I read about that other calculation but having an actual calculator that kinda tells you what kind of game the round can do is really nice based just on the hits calc I think I will stay with the .338 based on that since I thought about using it for bear as well if I could hunt them at range, if its close up an personal I will buy something else. Oh also I put a .225gr bullet into the winchestor calc and the .338 then blows away the lighter cartridges which is pretty interesting.
I think I will try and make the .338 work get myself a nice recoil pad and possibly a mercury recoil comp if I can find a spot to put one if its needed. At this point I have not even shot the thing, wanted to make sure I wanted to keep it/it being the best choice first. Anyhow thanks for all the help guys0 -
redice,
.338 WM is an excellent caliber choice. HITS is an excellent guide but here's one reason why I prefer my .300 WM over .338 WM (and both are shooters).
Here's what I am getting with my current loads (in the picture):
.300WM: 2860 FPS, HITS = 1722
.338WM: 2700 FPS, HITS = 1707
Not much difference but I can still squeeze more powder to gain more FPS on the .300 WM if need be but I am happy with it at this time. I am more interested in group accuracy than velocity.
Good luck!
Ed0 -
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
redice,
.338 WM is an excellent caliber choice. HITS is an excellent guide but here's one reason why I prefer my .300 WM over .338 WM (and both are shooters).
Here's what I am getting with my current loads (in the picture):
.300WM: 2860 FPS, HITS = 1722
.338WM: 2700 FPS, HITS = 1707
Not much difference but I can still squeeze more powder to gain more FPS on the .300 WM if need be but I am happy with it at this time. I am more interested in group accuracy than velocity.
Good luck!
Ed
Ya the main difference I see other than the powder cap is .300wm can go small .338 can go big, I can go up to 300gr where it looks like the 300 stops at 250 however you can also go a lot smaller, but then again in that large of a cartridge going that small I would think you would be having trouble filling it, start having a lot of low power load issues.
But I digress I think there both good choices don't think I could really go wrong aether way, however I have the .338 and this this is gorgeous "just unboxed it" and I got a great price. Was looking for 300's last night and nothing comes close to this for this kind of money.0 -
quote:Originally posted by redice
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
redice,
.338 WM is an excellent caliber choice. HITS is an excellent guide but here's one reason why I prefer my .300 WM over .338 WM (and both are shooters).
Here's what I am getting with my current loads (in the picture):
.300WM: 2860 FPS, HITS = 1722
.338WM: 2700 FPS, HITS = 1707
Not much difference but I can still squeeze more powder to gain more FPS on the .300 WM if need be but I am happy with it at this time. I am more interested in group accuracy than velocity.
Good luck!
Ed
Ya the main difference I see other than the powder cap is .300wm can go small .338 can go big, I can go up to 300gr where it looks like the 300 stops at 250 however you can also go a lot smaller, but then again in that large of a cartridge going that small I would think you would be having trouble filling it, start having a lot of low power load issues.
But I digress I think there both good choices don't think I could really go wrong aether way, however I have the .338 and this this is gorgeous "just unboxed it" and I got a great price. Was looking for 300's last night and nothing comes close to this for this kind of money.
Sorry but you will never have enough powder capacity to take advantage of what .300 grainer can offer with .338 WM, in fact you're lucky with .250 grainer. Unless you go with the big .338s like the EDGE, Lapua, etc ..0 -
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by redice
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
redice,
.338 WM is an excellent caliber choice. HITS is an excellent guide but here's one reason why I prefer my .300 WM over .338 WM (and both are shooters).
Here's what I am getting with my current loads (in the picture):
.300WM: 2860 FPS, HITS = 1722
.338WM: 2700 FPS, HITS = 1707
Not much difference but I can still squeeze more powder to gain more FPS on the .300 WM if need be but I am happy with it at this time. I am more interested in group accuracy than velocity.
Good luck!
Ed
Ya the main difference I see other than the powder cap is .300wm can go small .338 can go big, I can go up to 300gr where it looks like the 300 stops at 250 however you can also go a lot smaller, but then again in that large of a cartridge going that small I would think you would be having trouble filling it, start having a lot of low power load issues.
But I digress I think there both good choices don't think I could really go wrong aether way, however I have the .338 and this this is gorgeous "just unboxed it" and I got a great price. Was looking for 300's last night and nothing comes close to this for this kind of money.
Sorry but you will never have enough powder capacity to take advantage of what .300 grainer can offer with .338 WM, in fact you're lucky with .250 grainer. Unless you go with the big .338s like the EDGE, Lapua, etc ..
Well something to look at for the future I suppose, just shot the .338 twice with some factory rem 250gr and recoil was not bad at all, could use a better pad but quite manageable and I don't even have a scope or bipod on it yet which will prob help some just because of the added weight. Only problem I found was the ribs on the trigger kinda bit into my finger during recoil somehow, they don't feel that sharp but with recoil somehow they hurt a bit wish it was just a smooth trigger maybe I can replace it or possibly file them down or something, will have to look into it.
Other than that I really like it so far.0 -
Get yourself a SVL Limbsaver pad. It is the absolute best there is, and I have them on all my hard kicking machines. It will cut the felt recoil by as much as 50%.
Best0 -
quote:Originally posted by redice
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by redice
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
redice,
.338 WM is an excellent caliber choice. HITS is an excellent guide but here's one reason why I prefer my .300 WM over .338 WM (and both are shooters).
Here's what I am getting with my current loads (in the picture):
.300WM: 2860 FPS, HITS = 1722
.338WM: 2700 FPS, HITS = 1707
Not much difference but I can still squeeze more powder to gain more FPS on the .300 WM if need be but I am happy with it at this time. I am more interested in group accuracy than velocity.
Good luck!
Ed
Ya the main difference I see other than the powder cap is .300wm can go small .338 can go big, I can go up to 300gr where it looks like the 300 stops at 250 however you can also go a lot smaller, but then again in that large of a cartridge going that small I would think you would be having trouble filling it, start having a lot of low power load issues.
But I digress I think there both good choices don't think I could really go wrong aether way, however I have the .338 and this this is gorgeous "just unboxed it" and I got a great price. Was looking for 300's last night and nothing comes close to this for this kind of money.
Sorry but you will never have enough powder capacity to take advantage of what .300 grainer can offer with .338 WM, in fact you're lucky with .250 grainer. Unless you go with the big .338s like the EDGE, Lapua, etc ..
Well something to look at for the future I suppose, just shot the .338 twice with some factory rem 250gr and recoil was not bad at all, could use a better pad but quite manageable and I don't even have a scope or bipod on it yet which will prob help some just because of the added weight. Only problem I found was the ribs on the trigger kinda bit into my finger during recoil somehow, they don't feel that sharp but with recoil somehow they hurt a bit wish it was just a smooth trigger maybe I can replace it or possibly file them down or something, will have to look into it.
Other than that I really like it so far.
+1 on tsr1965 said about limbsaver. The .338 WM is a proven caliber for biggame and have survived the test of time. Here's a nice article about it ...
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_46/ai_65574867/
Enjoy your new toy. Happy safe shooting/hunting.
Ed0
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