M1 Firing Troubles
I recently became the owner of an M1, it's in pretty good condition SN# 2501660 made by Winchester, with a stainless gas cylinder all nice but when I brought to the range to do some operational checks I ran into some function issue's. Not being as familiar as I will be, I figured I'd ask the experts. Hopefully it will be an easy solution.
I loaded the 8 round clip with Winchester 150 GR. 30-06 Springfield ammunition. The clip inserted very smoothly and no problems. When I pulled the triger the first round went off and then was ejected. Seemed like no problems, but when I pulled the trigger for the next round nothing. Figuring I had a cycle problem (gas cylinder) and a round didn't chamber I pulled back the bolt back.... only to eject an unspent round? The 3rd round chambered and fired fine but then the 4th didn't and subsequently through the 8 rounds. When I retreved the spent casings and the ones that didn't fire this is what I found. The 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th rounds fired fine but the rims were gouged by the ejection or the clip. The 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th rounds did not fire but the primers were lightly struck but no marks on the rims. At first I thought maybe it was the way I might have alternated the rounds when I put them in the clip but figured to ask before I went further.
I have some idea's but any help would be appreciated.
Gene
I loaded the 8 round clip with Winchester 150 GR. 30-06 Springfield ammunition. The clip inserted very smoothly and no problems. When I pulled the triger the first round went off and then was ejected. Seemed like no problems, but when I pulled the trigger for the next round nothing. Figuring I had a cycle problem (gas cylinder) and a round didn't chamber I pulled back the bolt back.... only to eject an unspent round? The 3rd round chambered and fired fine but then the 4th didn't and subsequently through the 8 rounds. When I retreved the spent casings and the ones that didn't fire this is what I found. The 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th rounds fired fine but the rims were gouged by the ejection or the clip. The 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th rounds did not fire but the primers were lightly struck but no marks on the rims. At first I thought maybe it was the way I might have alternated the rounds when I put them in the clip but figured to ask before I went further.
I have some idea's but any help would be appreciated.
Gene
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How the rounds are loaded in the clip does not matter, it will shoot either way. You have some other problem. It may be that you are shooting commercial ammo rather than military ammo. It is said that commercial is hotter and that might be why the brass is getting messed up by the extractor. The unfired rounds did not have marks on the rims because they did not go thru the extraction process. 0 -
As Joe already told you; it make no differnce which direction the clip is inserted, the rifle will feed properly with the top round on the left or the right. The fact that some rounds fired and some did not makes me think that you either have a firing pin issue (worn) or a problem with the hammer spring, which could be old and weak. If you are using commercial ammo instead of MILSPEC M2 Ball this could very well be your problem and until you fire off some M2 Ball and check for functioning I would not start taking anything apart 0 -
Mark and Joe Thanks I'll get the ammo and see what I've got. One thing did come to mind though, before you mentioned the hammer spring. Is it possible someone tried to modify the rifle into to an automatic? I'll just get the ball ammo and let you know.
Thanks again!0 -
It is more likely that someone may have tried to modify the hammer to lighten up the trigger pull, which happens from time to time. A weak hammer spring will cause an erratic hammer strike and failures to fire. 0 -
Mark,
Was doing some more searching, found this site http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/nomenclature.html
Was going through the various descriptions and thinking it may be a combination of things including a worn sear, since it seems when the bolt comes back the sear just cycles and doesn't catch the hammer and just putting the next round in the chamber and letting firing pin ride forward with the bolt leaving the dented primers. Still gonna get the ball ammo and go from there. Keeping It Simple and using the "Network" Thanks again
The sear is a possibility. The sear is attached to the trigger by means of a small rivet, which sits just above the trigger pin hole. If that rivet is loose or damaged there is a chance that it is the cause of the problem
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By the way, that is a real Winchester trigger for your Winchester M1 [;)]0 -
Check if the operating handle is fully forward with each chambering.
If it is and you have a light strike, change the hammer spring.
If it isn't, change the slide spring or stretch it an inch or so.0 -
Will do thanks.
USGI spec for the operating rod spring is 19-20-1/4 inches. If it measures below 19 inches you need to replace the spring. They are cheap.0 -
Well, you've already found the CMP website. Every rifle they sell has been inspected, gauged, & test-fired by a US Military service-trained armorer, so they are likely to be safe & work reliably.
You, on the other hand, bought a pig in a poke. This may just be a minor problem, or the rifle could have serious problems that could end up launching a bolt into your forehead. A gunsmith who specializes in US military firearms should perform a technical inspection on your rifle before you attempt to fire it again. (Fulton Armory charges $79.95 for this service.
Neal0 -
I suspect your problem may be that your bolt isn't closing all the way. As such the "dog leg" on the back of the firing pin isn't clearing the little notch in the receiver and the strike of the hammer is being absorbed, partially. Could be as simple as a dirty chamber or could be a headspace issue. Could be a burr or ding on the dog-leg of the firing pin. As suggested above, it could be a bad op-rod spring but, in my experience that is unlikely. When they're broke, you'll know it. Disassemble the rifle, including taking the innards out of the bolt. With just the stripped bolt and barreled action, place a good factory cartridge (G.I. is best) in the chamber and see how the bolt closes on it. Too much headspace and the firing pin may not be able to "reach out to the primer" too little and the op-rod spring may not have the "juice" to "mash" the cartridge into the chamber. I been running the Garand matches at my club for a few years now and have seen both with all the Garands coming out of the woodwork. All problems are fix-able. Let us know how you make out... 0 -
When you say you pulled the trigger "and nothing happened" does that mean the hammer was already forward, or did the hammer fall and no round fired?
If the hammer is "following" the bolt it could be a disconnector or trigger issue to include a weak disconnector spring, or it could be as simple as the rounds generating enough recoil to eject but not enough to cock the hammer.
If you manually cycle the action and keep the trigger pulled to the rear, then release the trigger with the bolt forward does the hammer drop into the fully cocked position or has it followed the bolt? You can also check for follow through with the trigger group outside the gun - gently let the hammer forward then press the trigger to the rear & keep it there. Cock the hammer fully back to engage the disconnector and release the trigger. The hammer should slip from the disconnector to engage the sear, if it misses it the spring may be weak of someone may have fiddled with the engagement. When doing this check though don't let the hammer fly forward all the way - maintain some control of it against your palm or thumb.
Again, all this applies only if the hammer is following the bolt.0
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