45 70 / 416 Rigby Information Correct?
The venerable .45-70 Gov't with its anemic 79 grains of capacity can, from a Ruger No.1 with the right barrel, push a 405 grain bullet to 2,200 fps*. By comparison, a .416 Rigby factory 410 grain load uses its 127 grains of case capacity to attain 2,370 fps, or just 170 fps faster. The .416 Weatherby, with a 400 grain bullet, can churn up 2,700 fps from 140 grains of capacity. Expressed as muzzle energy, they produce 4,300 ft/lbs, 4.990 ft/lbs and 6,477 ft/lbs respectively. The .45-70 and .416 Rigby are close in performance and, with the right bullets, a .45-70 could be carried right alongside those chaps carrying .416 Rigbys.
If this is true why all the fuss about the Rigby?
Sage 1
If this is true why all the fuss about the Rigby?
Sage 1
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A 45/70 loaded to its potential is quite a thumper, a 45/70 as originally loaded is tame by comparison. I have a few 45/70s that can be loaded to No1 levels and a 416 Rigby. There are a few 416 loading that can get to 2,500 fps. Anyway, two and a half tons of energy from either is quite a bit.
I've never noted big "huzzahs" for the 416 as compared to a properly loaded 45/70. Part of the perception may be that the "average" 45/70 loading is light, bullets used vary from lead to light jacketed bullets and some sturdier stuff while .416 bullets are nearly all designed for stopping things that can step on us.0 -
I believe that in hotter climes, the 416 Rigby with it's longer case length and slightly lower pressures (Given the same loads for similar velocities) will provide a fired empty that will extract more reliably. I know that Jacque Lott had a bad experience hunting Africa with a 458 Win Mag (buffalo and a stuck case) that led to his developing the slightly longer 458 lott chambering; one can fire the 458 Win mag in a Lott chamber in a pinch. The Lott case provides the same and better performance but with the increased case length is more easily extracted due yo lower operating pressures in the high temps in Africa.
At any rate, all big cartridges gain less and less velocity per unit of powder as case size increases; i.e., it takes a bunch more powder to get a relatively small increase in velocities.0 -
You also have to take into account the original loadings and purpose for the rounds from many, many moons back. The original U.S. .45/70 load was a battlefield softball compared to the original .416 Rigby load designed for use on the biggest stuff on earth. 0 -
Sage1,
It's a fallacious comparison. The ballistics are stilted to make a favorable set of conditions for the arcane .45-70. Proper ballistics from tested loads will put the .45-70 to rear of the pack by a substantial amount in short order. Use up-to-date, modern information and not this contrive piece of gun writer BS. This includes the crap written in Wikipedia and by some "well-known" website owners.
Best.0 -
quote:Originally posted by dfletcher
A 45/70 loaded to its potential is quite a thumper, a 45/70 as originally loaded is tame by comparison.Yes it is, I have a Mauser action 45-70 and can load it almost to 458 Winchester ballistics. Case capacity was getting to be a problem and for years I have been going to have the chamber stretched to 45-90. Another reason for wanting to go to 45-90 in that thing is so I wouldn't get the ammo mixed up with ammo for my 1895 Marlin or some of the other 45-70s around here. Dang fine round, 138 years out and still blazing!0
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